The Former Lawyer Podcast

What do you do when you realize none of your strengths are rewarded in Biglaw—and many of your strengths are actually considered weaknesses? Hear how Alex Su went from a top law school to a top Biglaw firm, realized it wasn't for him, found his way into legal tech sales, and learned some important lessons on the way. Full show notes at formerlawyer.com/054. I'm closing enrollment for my...

Annie Little worked as a commercial lending and real estate lawyer for 7 years before allowing herself to consider the possibility that there was a better path for her. In this conversation, we talk about how she made the transition to running her own lawyer career coaching business, why moving towards something is so much more hopeful and empowering than running away from something else, how Anni...

This week I'm reflecting on the one-year anniversary of The Former Lawyer Podcast! I'm sharing some of what I've learned this year, and how you can apply these lessons in your own situation. The number one thing that I have learned in this last year is: don't wait until you feel ready. When I started this podcast a year ago, I knew virtually nothing about podcasting or online b...

We know that the mental health stats regarding lawyers are grim, but what is it really like to experience anxiety and panic as a lawyer? In this conversation (the first of two parts), Annie Little and I take a deep dive into our own experiences with generalized anxiety disorder and panic disorder. Annie has worked as a lawyer career coach for the last 7 years, and before that, practiced commercial...

Is quitting law without another job lined up a bad idea? When you're super miserable as a lawyer, you often find yourself wondering: can I just quit? My guest on today's podcast, Andrea Yang, did just that. After seven years as a lawyer, she quit her job and moved back in with her parents with no idea what she would do next. Hear how she found her way into and out of law. Show notes at f...

Law is my second career—can I still leave? A lot of lawyers ask themselves this question. In this episode, Mary Eberle shares all about how she left the law, even though it was her second career, and even though she had been made a shareholder at her law firm! Hear how Mary found her way to her current career as a genetic genealogist and her advice to anyone who feels stuck in an unfulfilling lega...

In the second half of our conversation, Lauren Bernadett shares about the challenges she faced leaving her high-paying law firm job as a single person, trying to figure out what was next when she didn't have a "dream job" in mind, why what she's gained from leaving the law far outweighs what she's lost, and what she learned from listening to this podcast! Show notes at for...

Lauren Bernadett spent a lot of time negotiating a full-ride scholarship to law school so that she wouldn't find herself trapped in a firm job that she hated. Five years in, she realized that despite her careful planning, she was still at a firm and felt stuck. In the first half of our conversation, hear how Lauren ended up in law school, how she figured out how to go debt free, and the momen...

Are you worried that quitting your job or leaving the law entirely means that you're a quitter? Most lawyers think that quitting things is bad and wrong. On episode 046, I'm sharing why it's okay to be a quitter, and why it could be the best thing for your career and your life. I'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently...

On episode 045, we're tackling another myth that keeps lawyers stuck: the sunk costs fallacy. Have you ever thought, "If I leave my job/the law, I'll be wasting all the time and money I spent becoming a lawyer!" Of course you have, because literally every lawyer thinks this at some point (or daily). In this episode, I talk about how to reframe your thoughts about waste when it...

On episode 044 of the podcast, I'm talking about another myth that keeps lawyers stuck in jobs they hate: that there's something wrong with them because they don't like their job. There are so many lawyers out there who think that not liking their job is an indication of some kind of failure on their part. It's not. Listen in to hear about my experience with this phenomenon and...

On episode 43 of the podcast, we're kicking off a series where we'll be talking about some of the myths that keep lawyers stuck in jobs they hate. This week: the myth of the perfect next step. Spoiler alert: there is no perfect next step! Listen in to hear why that's a good thing. I'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanent...

Have you found yourself crying in your office, or on the way to the office, or when working at home? Crying because of your job is weirdly normalized in the legal profession. In episode 042 of the podcast, I'm talking about why your job should not make you cry. Join the next cohort of the Collaborative that starts June 1—> formerlawyer.com/collab I'm closing enrollment for my self-pac...

In episode 041 of the podcast, I'm sharing why I think Biglaw is inhospitable to human life (spicy!), and why I think it's particularly important for women in Biglaw to figure out what they want from their careers. If you want to be the first to hear all the spicy takes I have about legal practice, join my email list by downloading the First Steps To Leaving The Law guide at formerlawyer...

In episode 040 of the podcast, I'm sharing two reasons that I'll be doing things a little differently on the podcast for a bit, and why it's important to remember that there are some things that you can't think your way through. I'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If you've been thi...

In Episode 039 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing the second half of my conversation with Sarah Rutledge Fischer. (You can listen to part 1 here .) Sarah is an artist and art teacher. She spent 3 1/2 years in biglaw before left and found her way to her current career as an artist.  In the second half of our conversation, Sarah shares about: The shame she felt during her biglaw experience; F...

In Episode 038, I’m sharing the first half of my conversation with Sarah Rutledge Fischer. (Look out for part 2 next week! We covered so many important themes, I’ve split our conversation into two episodes.) Sarah is an artist and art teacher. She spent 3 1/2 years in biglaw before left and found her way to her current career as an artist. In today’s episode, we talk about lots of things, includin...

In Episode 037 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing my conversation with Dr. Jan Newman. Jan is a licensed clinical psychologist and executive coach who works with multi-passionate high achievers who want to level up their lives. She is a published author and researcher and a frequent speaker on topics related to emotional intelligence, interpersonal effectiveness, and psychological flexibili...

We're doing things a little differently on today's episode. It's my first solo episode since all the way back in episode 001, when I shared a little bit about my own journey out of the law.⁠ ⁠ With everything that's happening with the COVID-19 pandemic, I wanted to share a few thoughts that I hope are helpful for those of you who aren't happy in your job right now.⁠ ⁠ In t...

In Episode 035 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing my conversation with Tai Dixon. Tai left legal practice for the the world of non-profit leadership, and last year, opened her own consulting practice where she specializes in workplace culture and liberatory leadership.  In this conversation, Tai shares about: How growing up with a parent who was a lawyer affected her decision to go to law s...

In Episode 034 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing my conversation with Tyler and April Roberts. Tyler, a former lawyer, and his wife April, who has a background in marketing, co-founded NOMOS Marketing, a marketing agency for lawyers. In this conversation, Tyler & April share about: What it’s like to be the spouse of a law student; How April found out that Tyler had passed the bar befor...

In Episode 033 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing my conversation with Gaby Abrams. Gaby left legal practice five years ago and opened an online stationery shop on Etsy, Casa Confetti. In this conversation, Gaby shares about: Thinking all through college she would head to med school, and then deciding to go to law school instead; Going to law school thinking that you can do anything with a...

In Episode 032 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing my conversation with Shunta Grant. Shunta left legal practice in 2015 to run her then side-hustle, Because of Zoe Designs , full-time. She has since started a second business teaching women how to build businesses on the other side of busy, and is launching a third business, the Best Today™ Brand, to help all women learn how to build lives o...

In Episode 031 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing my conversation with Adam Kol. Adam practiced tax law before leaving to become a couples financial counselor. In this conversation, Adam shares about: The way that the expectations of others drove him to law school; Quitting his tax lawyer job at Deloitte to spend a year as an animal activist supported by his savings; Working at a non-profit...

In Episode 030 of The Former Lawyer Podcast, I’m sharing the second half of my conversation with Amy DuVall. (I shared the first half of our conversation last week in episode 029 !)  After starting out in private practice, Amy spent 20 years as a lawyer and lobbyist doing environmental work in Washington D.C. In March 2018, she left that behind to study the pastry arts and open her baking business...