The Covert Narcissism Podcast

When a marriage falls apart, the story children see is often only a small part of what truly happened. One parent may look angry or reactive while the other appears calm or composed — but underneath, both are often hurting, both are surviving, and both are human. In this heartfelt episode, life coach and podcast host Renee Swanson speaks directly to the sons and daughters who grew up in homes shap...

If your mind can take one tiny worry and turn it into a full-blown disaster movie, you’re not alone. That’s catastrophic thinking — and it’s one of the most common patterns survivors of covert narcissistic abuse struggle with. After years of walking on eggshells, your brain learns to expect danger, even when there’s none. Whether you lived with a covertly abusive spouse or grew up under a narcissi...

We’ve all heard it—“But they had a rough childhood.” “They just don’t know any better.” “You have to feel sorry for them.” Yes, empathy is beautiful. But at some point, we have to ask: how far does this excuse go? In this episode, Renee pulls back the curtain on one of the most common traps survivors of covert narcissistic abuse fall into—confusing compassion with obligation. She unpacks the endle...

Triangulation doesn’t stop just because you see it. In fact, once you recognize the pattern, the covert narcissist often pushes harder, twisting words, controlling the story, and pulling others into the tension. In this episode, Renee walks you through how to handle triangulation in every stage of the journey: While you’re still in the relationship, how to stay grounded, refuse the bait, and prote...

In Part 2 of my conversation with Sarma Melngailis, we dive into the turning point—the awakening after covert narcissistic abuse. Sarma shares the moment she began to see the manipulation clearly, how she learned to gray rock and set boundaries, and what it means to find freedom after years of psychological control. Together, we unpack the neurobiology of cognitive dissonance, the pull of trauma b...

Triangulation is one of the covert narcissist’s most insidious tools — because it’s quiet, invisible, and devastating. It’s how they control the narrative, twist communication, and turn the people you love against each other — all while pretending to be the calm, reasonable “peacekeeper.” In this episode, Renee shares two powerful stories that reveal how triangulation slowly poisons relationships:...

Sarma Melngailis—best known from the Netflix docuseries Bad Vegan —joins me to reveal the story the headlines never told. In this powerful and deeply human conversation, Sarma opens up about covert narcissistic abuse, repeated manipulation, and the long road of self-discovery that followed. We explore how empathy, idealism, and even neurodivergence can make survivors more vulnerable to covert abus...

You didn’t just wake up one day and decide to slap them. That moment — the one that now fills you with shame and self-blame — didn’t come out of nowhere. It’s been building for a long time. In this episode, Renee Swanson explores what happens when years of emotional invalidation, manipulation, and gaslighting finally push you past your breaking point. When your calm exterior cracks, and your react...

What happens when survivors of covert narcissistic abuse come together in one safe space? At our recent CNG retreat, fifteen women gathered with fear, doubt, hope, and courage. Some were terrified to share their stories, afraid of judgment or dismissal. Others were overflowing with relief at finally being heard. In this episode, I reflect on the lessons and transformations from that weekend: the p...

Have you ever wondered why just being yourself feels like walking through a minefield with a covert narcissist? Why your joy, your truth, your boundaries, even your growth seem to set off explosions? In this episode, we unpack exactly why the covert narcissist sees you as a threat. From your truth that cracks their carefully crafted image, to your feelings that highlight their emptiness, to your i...

In Part 2 of my conversation with singer-songwriter Caryn Dixon , we go deeper into the journey of leaving—and staying gone—from covert narcissistic abuse. Caryn opens up about the staggering reality that it takes an average of seven attempts to leave an abusive relationship before it finally sticks, and why so many survivors find themselves pulled back into the cycle again and again. She shares t...

What happens when you stop pouring all your energy into someone else and start investing it back into yourself? In a healthy relationship, your self-care is welcomed and even celebrated. Your partner enjoys the space to recharge too, and both of you come back stronger. But in a relationship with a covert narcissist, pulling back your supply—the constant attention, caretaking, and emotional labor—c...

In this first half of my two-part conversation with singer-songwriter Caryn Dixon , we explore the story behind her new EP Bird in a Cage —a raw and vulnerable collection of songs written out of her experience of covert narcissistic abuse. Caryn shares how life inside the “perfect couple” image felt more like a shrinking cage, one that left her hiding her pain, questioning her reality, and carryin...

In today’s episode, I step away from the usual format to share something deeply personal and profoundly important. This is a tribute—a celebration of life—for a member of our community whose story ended too soon. For her privacy, I will call her Mary. Mary’s life was marked by decades of devotion, sacrifice, and quiet endurance. Though her family didn’t see her pain, and though her reality went un...

Leaving a covert narcissist isn’t a single moment of walking out the door—it’s a layered process that unfolds in stages. In this episode, I explore the three different ways survivors leave: physically, emotionally, and mentally. In physically abusive relationships, your body often leaves first for safety, while your heart and mind lag behind. In emotionally abusive relationships, your heart shuts...

You’ve researched. You’ve reasoned. You’ve shown empathy. You’ve tried again and again to help them see the truth—about their behavior, the damage, the disconnection. But nothing changes. In this episode, Renee Swanson explores one of the most painful patterns survivors of covert narcissistic abuse face: the endless attempts to help, to explain, to connect—and the devastating realization that it n...

Have you ever replayed a conversation in your head, wondering if you misunderstood what was said—or if you were being manipulated? In relationships with covert narcissists, it’s rarely the words themselves that do the most damage. It’s the intent, the tone, and the unspoken energy behind them. In this episode, we explore how the same words can hold completely different meanings depending on who is...

If Covert Narcissism 101 exposed the basics, get ready for the advanced curriculum. This is Part Two of our two-part series — and today, we’re tackling Covert Narcissism 102: The Final Exam You Never Wanted to Take. In this sarcastic “classroom lecture,” we break down the advanced strategies covert narcissists seem to master: weaponizing forgetfulness, controlling through chaos, hijacking holidays...

Have you ever noticed that covert narcissists all seem to follow the exact same script? It’s as if they sat in the same classroom, took the same notes, and memorized the same textbook. In this episode — Part One of a two-part series — we crack open that mysterious manual: Covert Narcissism 101. From the art of the half-apology, to gaslighting, silent treatments, and the polished public persona, yo...

One of the most painful realities of living with a covert narcissist is the absence of reconciliation. Conflicts don’t get repaired. Apologies are either nonexistent or so hollow they echo in your chest. You’re left holding the pieces of a conflict, waiting for your partner to help put them back together—only to realize they’ve already walked away, acting like nothing happened. In this episode, Re...

Divorcing a covert narcissist is not just about paperwork—it’s about survival. Today on the Covert Narcissism Podcast , I sit down with Bree Sullivan-Howell , a seasoned family law attorney with over two decades of experience and the author of Crush Your Divorce and Keep Your Faith and Crush Your Comeback . Bree brings both practical wisdom from the courtroom and heartfelt guidance for the persona...

When you’re in a relationship with a covert narcissist, it can feel like living in Never Never Land —a place where no one grows up, nothing ever gets resolved, and you’re left carrying all the weight. At first, their charm feels like magic. They’re playful, adventurous, fun. But when real life shows up—accountability, conflict, emotional depth—they shut down, lash out, or retreat into blame. In th...

“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?” Now that I have shown how I will treat every word that comes out of your mouth, you...

You don’t have to know the terminology to know when something feels wrong. Long before I knew the term gaslighting , I knew the dizzying confusion of hearing “I never said that” about something I remembered clearly. Before I’d ever heard of circular conversations , I knew the frustration of talking in circles until I was the one apologizing. Before I could name moving goalposts , I knew the exhaus...

They’ve stopped yelling. They’re going to therapy. They’re more “attentive.” So why does it still feel like nothing’s changed? In this final episode of our 4-part series with Dr. Anthony Mazzella, we dive into one of the most misunderstood dynamics in narcissistic relationships: the collapse of guilt into shame—and how it sabotages real change. We explore: Why narcissistically inclined individuals...