The Church Renewal Podcast

Matt and Jeremy explore the concept of differentiation from outcome, revealing how pastors can remain faithful without tying their identity to ministry results. This liberating approach helps church leaders break free from unhealthy patterns of control or disappointment. • Differentiation typically applies to relationships with people, but many leaders need to differentiate from outcomes as well •...

Systems naturally strive for equilibrium, but when that equilibrium is dysfunctional, it fiercely resists healthy change. We explore the foundational concepts of family systems theory and how they apply to church leadership. • Differentiation comes from biology – distinct cells that touch and connect while maintaining their unique identity • Common errors include never approaching the line (emotio...

Church systems automatically resist change even when transformation is desperately needed, creating a tension between healthy spirit-led renewal and our natural tendency to maintain familiar patterns. Recognizing how this dynamic plays out in congregations requires understanding both family systems theory and biblical principles for healthy church life. • Churches function as systems that naturall...

Churches, like families, instinctively resist change even when it's healthy because systems naturally seek stability—even dysfunctional stability. • Family systems theory provides powerful insights for understanding church dynamics • Western individualism misses our design for relationship and community • Eastern collectivism correctly values community but can suppress healthy differentiation...

Dysfunction in churches stems from humanity's fallen nature and our propensity to break relationships with God, ourselves, and others. The gospel provides the only pathway to healing these fractured relationships and restoring healthy church systems. • Most congregations function like extended families, making family systems theory applicable to church settings • Family systems theory observe...

Only 24 hours left until season 4 of the church renewal podcast goes live. If you are  ready to discover keys that will unlock patterns of communications disfunction relationship challenges mistrust apathy and reactivity join us tomorrow as we jump with both feet into the deep end. We are going to unpack family systems theory, and connect it to the theology and practical ministry application for y...

In edition to unpacking family systems theory, we are going to talk with several guests who have extensive personal and professional knowledge and experience working with leaders and churches to identify and correct church trauma. Heres a sneak peek at a few of our guests. Support the show Please connect with us at our Website , Facebook , LinkedIn , and YouTube . If you'd like to support the...

Is a discussion on family systems theory more than just a psychological exercise? Absolutely! This season we're gonna unpack concepts of differentiation triangulation, scapegoating, and more from both the sociological and the theological perspective to help you be able to identify and move towards solutions in your personal leadership and in your church body. Support the show Please connect w...

The Church Renewal Podcast is about to drop Season 4 on September 4th.  This season Jeremy and Matt will unpack the many ways that Family Systems Theory is beneficial to diagnosing church and church leadership dysfunction and congregational pain.  Save the date and join us for what we are sure will be an eye opening and tremendously useful season.  Support the show Please connect with us at our We...

Pastor Chris Bowen opens up about his journey stepping into a church marked by what he calls "congregational trauma" and how pastoral coaching through Flourish became a lifeline for both him and his congregation. When mentors advised him to find support as he began at New Covenant Fellowship, Chris sought someone who understood his denominational context and could provide both personal c...

Matt and Jeremy continue their conversation with Dr. Dave Miles Founder of Vital Church Ministry and explore what Dave calls "the unholy trinity" plaguing many churches: idolatry, conflict, and power. With the warmth of pastors rather than clinical consultants, they unpack how these issues repeatedly surface in struggling congregations. Dave shares a story that perfectly captures church...

What if your church's struggles aren't really about what they appear to be? In this thought-provoking second installment with Dr. Dave Miles Founder of Vital Church , we dive deep into the hidden emotional dynamics shaping church health and decline. The conversation reveals a startling truth: beneath the surface of most church conflicts lie unaddressed emotional processes and unexamined...

Dr. Dave Miles has spent 31 years walking into church buildings where hope is dwindling, relationships are fractured, and the future seems uncertain. As founder of Vital Church Ministry , he's dedicated his career to being a spiritual first responder for congregations in crisis. Growing up in Detroit's fundamentalist church scene, Dave found his faith truly blossomed through small group...

A church in crisis. A pastor who suddenly departed. Deep divisions over COVID and politics. This intimate conversation with Bill Scionella, ruling elder at Columbia Presbyterian Church, reveals the powerful journey of a congregation that found its way back from the brink through humility, assessment, and intentional leadership development.    When Columbia Presbyterian's pastor took a sabbati...

Dr. Tom Harris , President of Interim Pastor Ministries returns for the final installment of our three-part conversation, delivering powerful insights into the universal challenges facing churches in transition. Drawing from decades of experience, Tom identifies two critical weaknesses that consistently plague congregations: inadequate leadership development and the abandonment of evangelism. The...

What happens in the critical space between pastors can determine a church's future trajectory for years to come. Dr. Tom Harris President of  Interim Pastor Ministries joins us to unpack why rushing to fill a pastoral vacancy might be the biggest mistake churches make during transitions. Harris offers a compelling perspective on church identity, explaining how congregations often operate from...

Dr. Tom Harris , President of Interim Pastor Ministries , brings three decades of hard-won wisdom to this conversation about the critical role of transitional leadership in churches experiencing pastoral change. With refreshing candor, Tom shares how he stumbled into interim ministry when interviewing for a permanent position at a struggling congregation. Recognizing their deeper needs for healing...

Navigating a pastoral transition represents one of the most pivotal moments in a church's life. When Grace Point Church in Pennsylvania faced this challenge, they discovered that the path forward wasn't something they needed to forge alone. Steve, former elder board chairman and search committee leader, shares the vulnerable journey of realizing that despite having experienced leaders wi...

Dr. Ken Quick of Blessing Point Ministry continues his conversation with Matt and Jeremy about how Jesus speaks to His church as a corporate body and why many congregations struggle to hear Him. The powerful story of a ninth-grade girl in Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania whose whispered insight resonated with an entire congregation demonstrates how God often speaks through the most humble members. Part...

The Church Renewal Podcast explores how congregations can address their corporate history and discipline in the second part of our discussion with Dr. Ken Quick of Blessing Point Ministries . Churches often resist examining painful history, but Christ's love demands honest confrontation with the past to experience true renewal. Listen to Part 1 here. The 8th Letter https://www.amazon.com/Eigh...

Dr. Ken Quick of Blessing Point Ministries joins us to discuss how Jesus speaks to churches corporately, not just to individuals, and how addressing a congregation's painful past can lead to healing and renewal.  The 8th Letter https://www.amazon.com/Eighth-Letter-Exploring-Churches-Discovering/dp/B08NDXBC1Z by Dr. Ken Quick • Churches often don't realize Jesus has a corporate message fo...

Season 3.5 drops tomorrow. That means in less than 24 hours, you’ll hear the conversations that wouldn’t stay quiet. Church renewal isn’t just an idea—it’s a process, and we’re still in it with you. Get ready for insights, challenges, and maybe even a few surprises. Season 3.5 starts Thursday, April 3. Make sure you’re subscribed, and we’ll see you there Support the show Please connect with us at...

We’re back. Season 3.5 of *The Church Renewal Podcast* launches this Thursday. This isn’t a new season—it’s an unfinished one. We’re picking up the conversations that were too big to leave behind. If you care about the future of your church, you don’t want to miss what’s coming. Join us Thursday, April 3, as we dive back in. Be sure you’re subscribed wherever you listen to podcasts. Support the sh...

"Some of the best conversations happen *after* the episode ends. That’s why Season 3.5 exists—to bring you the insights we couldn’t leave behind. This time, we’re sitting down with church revitalization leaders like Tom Harris from Interim Pastor Ministries, Ken Quick from Blessing Point Ministries, and Dave Miles from Vital Church Ministry. Plus, you’ll hear firsthand stories from pastors wh...

You know that feeling when you finish a great conversation… but later, you realize there was so much more to say? That’s exactly what happened when we wrapped up Season 3 of *The Church Renewal Podcast.* So, we’re back for a mid-season release—Season 3.5! Because let’s be honest, we left some big conversations on the table, and it’s time to pick them back up. What’s coming? More hard questions, mo...