Surface Level

Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious – how can healthy disagreement lead to personal growth? Closing the fire series, our penultimate episode for season seven explores what happens when tempers boil over. We recognize that even in our closest relationships there is bound to be conflict, but how we approach these situations make the difference in our lives. Will we accept uneasy conversations as an opp...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how does aligning with traditional beauty standards benefit and harm our community? Pretty privilege, the hot-button topic that has been at the forefront of many kitchen tables has made its way to Surface Level. This week we welcome Obio Jones, Digital Creator and LGBTQIA+ Advocate to our Surface Level family. We ask ourselves, can we work against a system that w...

Jordan & Tony are curious – how can we broaden what it means to be Black and excellent? In this unprecedented bonus episode, we revisit our season opener, 'Black Excellence Is A Scam,' from a fresh perspective. While Damon is absent this week (rest assured, he'll be back in full effect next week!), we are excited to welcome Eboni K. Williams, an Author, Attorney, and Host, to our Surface Level fam...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how does the work of Queer nightlife curators impact our ability to find community? In closing out Wind series, we are excited to pay tribute to a space that has long represented freedom for Queer individuals: nightlife. This supersized episode of Surface Level is dedicated to the legacy of Black Queer nightlife giant, Frank Watson, who we lost earlier this year....

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how is the quest to not just survive but thrive unique within Black Trans experience ? In an effort to continue to introduce you to amazing members of our community this week we welcome Tabytha Gonzalez to our Surface Level Family. A human rights professional and a woman with a story that deserves to be told we speak with her through the lens of new documentary T...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how do we protect our joy when pride is under attack? We bring you something special edition of Surface Level for Pride 2023! We are happy to share our favorite pride memories, delve into a conversation around the attack on Queer representation from conservatives, and offer a little bit of Surface Level drag story time because you know we love the kids(well Jorda...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – What was our parent’s journey in accepting our Queer identity? This episode will likely take the crown as our most personal level ever. This week we welcome Annette Epps, Teresa Randall, and Tony Jermin Sr, better known as our parents, to our Surface Level family. We explore the joy, surprise, pain, and confusion that defined our parents journey of accepting thei...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious - How can we dismantle mental health stigmas and foster understanding? In this episode as we navigate the complex terrain of mental health. We welcome Jarred Denzel Keller to our Surface Level Family. Jarred, a Mental Health Advocate and Senior Press Secretary for the Human Rights Campaign, bears his truth for all to hear and see. Together, we shed light on the com...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – is Black Excellence doing more harm than help? In this thought-provoking episode, we challenge the notion of "Black Excellence" and explore the unrealistic pressures that surround it. This special episode was recorded in front of a live audience, marking an exciting milestone for our podcast. Together, we seek to redefine the true meaning of success and offer a f...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – are you ready to go beyond the surface level with us? Another season in the books for this journey that we call Surface Level. We have a blast connecting with our listeners through a series of audience submitted questions. We’re a bit off the cuff an we’re sure you’ll enjoy it. This season we’ve worked to create visibility for stories that aren’t often told. This...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – who are we…really? This season’s penultimate episode forces us to look within in a very meaningful way. First we give language to the guiding principles that define us at our core, then we assess our intersectional experience as Black Queer people regarding what parts of our identity we are most comfortable with or not. Finally, we reflect on how the experience o...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – why are men afraid to embrace beauty? If you walk away with one thing from this episode, know that if beating that face makes you happy, do it! We welcome Sir John to our Surface Level Family. Sir John, Creative Director and global make-up artist, brings a fun and insightful perspective to this conversation. As men, we tend to shy away from things that make us fe...

ordan, Damon & Tony are curious – is categorizing certain stories as trauma porn fair? This week is centered around the hot topic of “trauma porn”. We have seen various stories that highlight the painful history of Black Americans. Sometimes it feels that these are the only stories Hollywood wants to share about us. We interrogate the line between art sharing truth versus what can sometimes feel l...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how does the approval of others lead us to hide parts ourselves? Today’s episode explores the idea of hiding parts of who we are to gain acceptance in various spaces. We welcome Elegance Bratton to our Surface Level Family. Elegance, the director of the critically acclaimed film The Inspection, speaks on his journey from Queer Marine to creative and how his ident...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how can establishing healthier relationships with alcohol? We are all guilty of the proclamation “I’m never drinking again” after a rough night on the bottle. Maybe that was driven by a desire for a good time or from a need to escape darker emotions. We explore those dueling motives in this episode. From CDC guidelines on recommended drinking, to personal stories...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how does self-hate create toxicity among Black, Queer men? Our show often highlights external factors that stifle our community, but this week is focused on self-reflection. Growing up as Black, Queer men we develop many defense mechanisms that manifest as self-hate. This hate is often reflected in the othering of people in our community whose experiences are dif...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – are the benefits of abiding by respectability politics worth the cultural sacrifice? Today’s episode gets into heated territory at times as we debate the benefits, or lack thereof, for following the rules of respectability politics. We welcome Kalen Allen to our Surface Level Family. Kalen, actor and media personality, adds a fresh perspective to our conversation...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – has our fear of judgment stifled our sexual liberation? Safe spaces are important for Black Queer people and that idea extending to sexual environments is no different. We have some fun exploring our personal do’s and don’t in these situations and highlight how we as a community contribute to each other’s liberation or shame regarding sex. We know a lot but we do...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – what can we do to make Black Queer stories more visible? In this season opener, we highlight the cultural moments that have made us feel most seen, we interrogate the internal and external factors limiting further visibility for our community, and we discuss our hopes for further advancement of the Black Gay agenda. We welcome Emil Wilbekin to our Surface Level F...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – are you ready to go beyond the surface level with us? The finale to our fifth season further highlights our expanded commitment to community. We kick off by welcoming Steve Cruz, Strategic Giving Manager for the Ali Forney Center and Maddox Guerilla, an Ali Forney Center alum, to our Surface Level family. We were proud to raise money for AFC this season, an organ...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – what did we learn when traversing the toughest moments in our friendship? This week’s episode is quite introspective and discusses the evolution of our views on friendship in recent years. We play a game that gives our response to messy friendship scenarios, then discuss the experience of growing apart from friends, the rocky road we have traversed as friends in...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how can healthcare information best be communicated to Black Queer folx? This week’s episode takes a relevant look at healthcare discussions that started during COVID are now being renewed with onset of Monkeypox. We start as always with a bit of silliness in an animal themed game of ridiculous choices, then dissect our long term or evolving trust of the medical...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how is the Black German experience different from that of Black Americans? This week’s episode is a special glimpse into our lives as friends sharing highlights from our experience at Berlin Pride. During the episode we play a game of Bop or Flop with various experiences we had on the trip, dissect the key differences we see between pride in New York vs our exper...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how can we foster non-sexual male intimacy? This week, we explore the idea of intimacy between men both Straight and Queer. We play a game rating potential partners based on fun dating scenarios, then discuss how the stigma around sexuality has impacted our relationships with Straight men, if sex and intimacy can healthily exist with non-partners, and how we are...

Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how have our experiences with grief shaped how we want to be remembered? This episode starts with a fun game titled “giving up the ghost,” then delves into a conversation that is equal parts serious and fun. We dissect our individual experiences with grief, any anxiety we have surrounding it, our hopes for who will take care of us in our golden years, and close b...