Storytelling Animals

In T.C.Boyle's 2021 novel Talk To Me , one of the main characters is a chimpanzee. It's a fascinating study in how humans respond to other apes, and an ambitious experiment in imagining what it might be like to be one. Using the novel as a starting point, in this solo episode I explore whether learning to love chimpanzees can help break down the human/animal divide, and how Boyle's portrayal of Sa...

Today marks the 205th birthday of Henry David Thoreau, and to celebrate, I brought on Alda Balthrop-Lewis, author of Thoreau's Religion: Walden Woods, Social Justice, and the Politics of Asceticism . Why (if at all) does Thoreau still matter? How did he engage with the political issues of his time, in particular slavery and the advances of industrial capitalism? Do the ascetic practices he engaged...

Today's topic is "degrowth": What does it mean? Is it actually desirable? How could we achieve it? And do we really need to confront economic growth if we want to fight climate change and build a just, sustainable society? My guest is Aaron Vansintjan, co-author of The Future Is Degrowth: A Guide to a World Beyond Capitalism . The interview starts at 3:41. Learn more about the book here: https://w...

Today's guest is paleontologist Steve Brusatte, author of the new book The Rise and Reign of the Mammals: A New History, From the Shadow of the Dinosaurs to Us , previously the author of The Rise and Fall of the Dinosaurs, and also a paleontology consultant on the new movie Jurassic World: Dominion . We talk about what he calls "the story of us": the long history of our mammal ancestors from even...

Today I talk with David M. Peña-Guzmán about his new book When Animals Dream: The Hidden World of Animal Consciousness . David is associate professor of humanities and liberal studies at San Francisco State University and the cohost of Overthink podcast. Learn more about the book here: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691220093/when-animals-dream Sign up for my free weekly newslette...

My guest for the 20th(!) episode is science journalist Hannah Seo--we talked about her reporting on the tragic demise of the Christmas Island forest skink and the Bramble Cay melomys, two extinct species she recently eulogized for the guardian. How did they die? Could we have stopped it? What was it like for the scientists who watched them fade away? Hannah's extinction obituary of the skink: http...

Philosopher Kate Soper explains why going beyond consumerism won't just help the environment--it will make us happier. Together we discuss a slower-paced world with fewer cars, less work, less stuff, and more pleasure. Learn more about her book, Post Growth Living: For an Alternative Hedonism , here: https://www.versobooks.com/books/3693-post-growth-living If you like this episode, please sign up...

Last week I took a 48+ hour Amtrak train from Los Angeles to Dearborn, Michigan, just outside of Detroit. It ended up taking even longer, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat. In this episode I talk about my experience and explain the climate impacts of aviation, rail, and buses, and explain why I think trains may be the future of long-distance transportation. If you like this episode, please sign u...

Kim Stanley Robinson is the author of the new autobiographical nonfiction book The High Sierra: A Love Story . He's also written 20 novels, including Red Mars and The Ministry for the Future , and now he's appeared on this podcast! We talk about his love of rocky landscapes, how he started backpacking, and the need to make space for wildlife. We also talk about how his Sierra life has impacted his...

Dylan Harris is an assistant professor and geographer at University of Colorado Colorado Springs, as well as an editor of Not Afraid of the Ruins, a collection of speculative eco-fiction. We talk about how stories can help us make sense of climate change, the use of the supernatural in climate fiction, and the power of deep geological time. Not Afraid of the Ruins can be found online below, and wi...

You may know that an asteroid drove the dinosaurs extinct, but do you know what happened after the asteroid hit, and how we got from T. rex 's world to ours? Digging into these questions can reveal a lot about how ecology and evolution work, and perhaps help us make sense of humanity's place in the web of life. To explore all this and more, I speak with science writer and amateur paleontologist Ri...

Today's guests are journalist Dahr Jamail and teacher of Native American literature Stan Rushworth, who edited the new volume We Are the Middle of Forever: Indigenous Voices from Turtle Island on the Changing Earth. We talk about how the way we see the world impacts how we act, and why it's so important to look at each other and all our nonhuman relations, past present and future, as our kin. Ther...

As countries around the world fail to tackle climate change, many have begun to wonder whether democracy itself is up to the task. In her book Too Hot To Handle? The Democratic Challenge of Climate Change , Rebecca Willis argues that we need more democracy, not less--that we need to get everyday citizens more involved in the political process through citizen assemblies and other spaces for deliber...

Environmental historian Troy Vettese and environmental engineer Drew Pendergrass worked together on the new book Half-Earth Socialism: A Plan to Save the Future From Extinction, Climate Change and Pandemics. I spoke with both of them about the problems with Marx's nature philosophy, why we need widespread veganism and energy quotas, and how central economic planning can help us chart a way through...

lauren Ornelas, founder of the Food Empowerment Project, talks about her decades in the animal rights movement, why our food choices matter, and why vegans should fight for farmworkers rights and racial justice. We discuss issues from duck farming's abuses to child labor in the chocolate industry to her organization's work increasing food access in communities of color. Learn more about the Food E...

Guardian environment reporter Oliver Milman, author of The Insect Crisis: The Fall of the Tiny Empires That Run the World , joins us to explain why we should be worried about insect declines and how we can help out both as individuals and through larger scale political action. Plus, we explore why insects are worth appreciating for their own sake. Learn more about the book here Oliver Milman on li...

I talk with philosopher Jeff Sebo about his new book Saving Animals, Saving Ourselves: Why Animals Matter for Pandemics, Climate Change, and Other Catastrophes . We discuss both moral and pragmatic reasons to care about other animals, then get into how we could include their interests in public health and environmental decision-making. Later, we explore tough questions like how to act when we are...

Mark Bittman is the author of more than 30 books and nearly 200 New York Times op-eds, known both for his cooking tips and his searing critiques of industrial agriculture. This episode we talk about his book Animal, Vegetable, Junk , which traces centuries of cruelty and exploitation to show how our food system got to where it is today. We only cover a fraction of this history in the podcast, but...

Matt Bell's novel Appleseed has no shortage of urgent themes, and on this episode we talk about whether democracy is suited to the task of rapidly confronting climate change, the perilously seductive allure of techno-optimism, and how fiction can help us imagine a future less estranged from the nonhuman world. Should we take geoengineering seriously? How should those in high-emissions countries th...

Thea Riofrancos, the author of Resource Radicals: From Petro-Nationalism to Post-Extractivism in Ecuador , talks about the challenges posed by resource extraction to indigenous sovereignty, the rights of nature, and our conceptions of democracy. We also think about what a less extractive economy might look like, and whether a green transition reliant on minerals for batteries and solar panels risk...

How do stories set in a post-apocalyptic future look back at our present world: are characters nostalgic for the affluence and convenience? Or do they look back in disgust, understanding that many of these luxuries were built on exploitation and environmental destruction? Or a little of both? I look at Emily St. John Mandel's Station Eleven (the 2014 novel and the 2021/2022 TV show), Dawn of...

I talk with author Laura Jean McKay about her Arthur C. Clarke Award-winning novel The Animals in That Country , using fiction to give voice to other animals, and how literature can help us recognize that humans are not the center of the universe--that instead we are part of a larger, in some ways scary and humbling but also more wondrous world. Buy the book here: https://scribepublications.com/bo...

On this episode we talk with Sarah Lazare, who finished writing the novel Testimony after the passing of her father Peter Lazare, who had written the first draft. We discuss how the novel continues political conversations she had held with her father in life, and how to turn wonky topics like utility regulation into a thrilling narrative. We also discuss her recent journalism on global vaccine ine...

In this episode, Georgetown philosophy professor Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò talks to us about his new book, Reconsidering Reparations , which makes the case that reparations must be a forward-looking project aiming to remake the political, economic, and cultural structures built by colonialism and the trans-Atlantic slave trade. He also argues that such a project must necessarily address the climate crisis...

For the very first episode I talk with environmental writer Emma Marris about her new book, Wild Souls: Freedom and Flourishing in the Nonhuman World . We discuss why animals matter, whether species and ecosystems do, how to think about non-native creatures, and how to make our way forward in a messy but wondrous world. If you enjoy this episode feel free to like, subscribe, tell a friend, or supp...