Spiritual Life and Leadership

This episode unpacks the concept of differentiation—how it allows us to recognize when someone else's anxiety affects us and vice versa, and the significance of maintaining our personal identity while staying connected in relationships. With vivid examples and relatable scenarios, we'll explore strategies to navigate crises and anxiety within our congregations and leadership teams withou...

Healthy leadership is about paying attention to what God is up to in the people we’re leading.  Our job, then, is not to force people to be something they’re not so they can support our own initiatives.  Our job is to take note of how our people are wired and then help them live that out for the sake of God’s mission. This is true, by the way, not only for the people we lead; it's true for th...

In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the powerful reminder that as pastors and leaders, we are not God and that recognizing our human limitations can prevent dysfunction within our ministries. This conversation will shed light on the protective nature of limitations for both leaders and those entrusted to their care. Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Mandy...

Terry Walling is Founder and President of Leader Breakthru and the author of Unlikely Nomads .  In this episode, Terry Walling shares about people he calls “nomads.”  They love Jesus, but they don’t love the more traditional expressions of the church.  They want to be part of the church, but the way most of our churches are structured isn’t life-giving for them. Terry and I reflect together on wha...

In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson unpack a powerful quote from Steve Carter, "You only learn resilience through the fire and through the suffering." This quote emerged from Steve Carter's experience of letting go of everything he had known and worked towards when he offered his resignation from a church leadership position in the wake of abuse allegations against the...

Daniel Lee is the academic dean for the Center for Asian American Theology and Ministry at Fuller Theological Seminary and author of Doing Asian American Theology . Daniel Lee discusses the fact that each of us does theology from a particular persepective.  Recognizing our own "particularities" makes us far better leaders.  Why?  Because the more we are aware of our own cultural particul...

In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore a powerful quote from Lisa Lamb: "An abdication of leadership is also an abuse of leadership." Lisa's perspective as a preaching professor adds a unique angle to the discussion, highlighting the responsibility of leaders to recognize and respond to the needs they see in the world. Tod shares insights from his experience, empha...

In this conversation, Adam McHugh, the author of Blood From a Stone , opens up about his transition from ministry as a hospice chaplain to the world of wine, becoming a wine tour guide and sommelier.  Adam shares about the emotional rollercoaster that goes along with redefining one's identity and faith outside of traditionally established ministry roles. For pastors and ministry leaders strug...

In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the transformative power of vocation as they discuss a poignant quote by Steven Garber. Join them as they unpack how each person's calling is  woven into the very meaning of God's work in the world. They shed light on the profound implications of vocation for spiritual formation, the vitality of the church, and the overarching miss...

When I walked the Camino de Santiago in 2022, it was something I had been longing to do for years.  After a fairly traumatic experience at a church I'd been serving, the thought of just walking with Jesus for an extended time felt like exactly what I needed. I walked the Camino together with Jon Huckins, the founder and Director of Journey Home .  In this episode, Jon unpacks why pilgrimmage...

In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the concept of disequilibrium and its impact on systems, leadership, and organizational health. They discuss how prolonged equilibrium can be detrimental to a system's ability to adapt and innovate, and how crises and moments of disequilibrium can actually reveal underlying problems and present opportunities for growth and change. Drawi...

Would your neighborhood even notice if your church ceased to exist?  I imagine that’s a question many of us have thought about.  Maybe you’ve even posed that question to your congregation. Maybe the question should be, as churches, how do we become more present to our neighborhood.?  That’s what I talk about in this episode with my guest, Tim Soerens, the author of Everywhere You Look: Discovering...

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the technological challenges faced by congregations during the pandemic. They discuss a quote from Scott Thumma about the hybrid and customizable nature of the world and its implications for congregations. Tod shares insights on the importance of aligning values with technological adaptations, the decreasing willingness to change post-pandemic, and the need...

Barry Rowan has had a 40-year career in leading businesses after graduating from Harvard Business School. He and his wife are entering into a new encore calling, which includes his new book, The Spiritual Art of Business . Barry Rowan, in this episode, challenges the dualism of the sacred and the secular, and shares his incredible journey of surrender, transformation, and integrating faith into hi...

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the distinction between change and transition. Quoting D. Michael Lindsay, they discuss how change happens in an instant, whereas transition unfolds over weeks, months, and sometimes years. Bolstering this idea with personal anecdotes, they delve into the importance of giving oneself the time and space to adapt to change, acknowledging the losses involved, a...

Michael Rhodes is lecturer in Old Testament at Carey Baptist College and the author of Just Discipleship:  Biblical Justice in an Unjust World . From the biblical concept of justice and the role of worship in shaping our approach to justice, to the practicalities of addressing poverty and racial justice, Michael Rhodes takes us into the heart of what it means to live out just discipleship. THIS EP...

In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the challenge of being fully authentic as a ministry leader. The conversation centers around a quote from Sara Bereza, highlighting the difficulty people in professional ministry face when trying to be their true selves. Through an exploration of the biblical story of Moses, Paul's writings in 2nd Corinthians, and personal anecdotes, Ma...

Scott Thumma is Professor of Sociology of Religion at Hartford International University and Director of the Hartford Institute for Religion Research .  Scott is also Principal Investigator of a study titled Exploring the Pandemic Impact on Congregations . In this episode, Scott Thumma shares insights from that study, including the tension between clergy and congregations, the rise of hybrid worshi...

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson unpack a quote by Andy Crouch emphasizes the importance of finding the right meaningful risk in unlocking flourishing for both oneself and those entrusted to their care. Tod and Markus discuss the concept of meaningful risk as distinct from mere risk-taking, emphasizing the role of discernment in pursuing risks that are truly worth taking. They delve into the idea t...

Todd Hunter leads Churches for the Sake of Others, a diocese of the Anglican Church in North America, and is the author of What Jesus Intended: Finding True Faith in the Rubble of Bad Religion . In this episode, Todd Hunter and I discuss “bad religion,” “good religion,” and what it means to be the church God has called us to be.  THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE: Todd discusses "bad rel...

In this quick conversation Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore a thought-provoking quote from Alexia Salvatierra, a professor at Centro Latino at Fuller Theological Seminary. The quote, "If you don't listen, you can't see what God is doing," sparks a deep discussion on the importance of listening and discerning God's work in the world. Tod shares insights on the implic...

Jeff Crosby is President and CEO of ECPA, the trade association of Christian pulishers, and the author of The Language of the Soul: Meeting God in the Longings of Our Hearts . In this episode, I’m speaking with Jeff Crosby about our longings.  We discuss a Portuguese word—saudade—which, according to Jeff, is an untranslatable word that refers to a kind of deep, inner longing that every human feels...

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss the role of anger in leadership. They emphasize the importance of acknowledging and addressing anger in a healthy way, shifting the focus from retaliation to addressing the systems that need to be changed. They highlight the significance of understanding and navigating the anger of others, especially in the context of leading change in churches and organizat...

Roy Inzunza is corporate chaplain at Hoehn Motors in San Diego and works as an adaptive leadership coach with Tod Bolsinger . In this episode, Roy Inzunza shares about his experience as a corporate chaplain.  He shares not only how he began to see needs in the staff and in the organization that no one else saw—or no one was addressing—but he also shares how he began to lead from the margins.  By c...

In this episode, we’ve gathered a panel of experienced coaches in the world of church ministry to discuss the challenges of adapting to a rapidly changing landscape and the importance of embracing an adaptive approach to ministry leadership. Joining Markus Watson on the panel are Matt Lake, Jonny Weir, and Heather James. All of them, because of their work as coaches with the Church Leadership Inst...