David Roche and Megan Roche

Some Work, All Play

Sports EN ↓ 323 episodes

Five to ten topics, sometimes about running, with lots of love and enthusiasm and science. We dig deep into training, races, studies, pop culture, and much more! With Megan Roche, M.D. and David Roche!

Author

David Roche and Megan Roche

Category

Sports

Podcast website

swaprunning.com

Latest episode

Jul 7, 2026

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Episodes

144. Threshold Training Explained, New Studies on Supershoes, and HILL BEASTS! 07.03.2023

This episode got down and dirty with the most fun topics! The main training topic was on a new narrative review study describing the evolution of training theory, and why different approaches have converged on the benefits of lower-intensity training with relatively high doses of moderate threshold running, plus VO2-style speed in small doses. Figure 3 from that study is our love language, and we...

143. Lauren Fleshman Interview! Best-Selling Author, Great Athlete/Coach, Best Human! 28.02.2023

We had SO MUCH FUN talking to Lauren Fleshman! Her book "Good For A Girl" just debuted as a New York Times Bestseller, and we think it's one of the best books ever written. The book is part-memoir, part-manifesto, fearlessly confronting cultural problems in running and beyond, while also being a beautiful and funny reflection on her life journey. In this interview, we talked about how we can chang...

142. Double Threshold Workouts, Black Canyon 100k Recap, and Blood Tests! 21.02.2023

This week's episode is jam-packed with happiness and fun! The main training topic was on 2 workouts that could have outsized benefits for lactate clearance and performance at every distance. The first workout is SO HOT right now: double thresholds, popularized by Norwegian training systems. The second is not quite as hot, but no less fun: post-interval moderate running. These sessions are on the c...

141. Why Athletes Are Running So Fast, Eating Before Running, and 10 Questions on Relationships and Love! 14.02.2023

This week's VERY SPECIAL episode was a pure celebration! We didn't want to stop recording, so there are a few more minutes of fun. The main training topic was an exploration of why athletes are getting faster at every distance. Our theories involve converging training approaches, feedback processes from shoe technology, and an emphasis on adequate fueling. What does the future hold? It's incredibl...

140. Kara Goucher Interview! Olympian and Life Boss on Vulnerability and Strength! 07.02.2023

We had such a life-affirming interview with one of our all-time heroes, Kara Goucher! Kara became famous as one of the best runners in the world, winning 3 national championships in college, a silver medal in the 10k at the World Championships, and making 2 Olympic teams. But the running accolades are just the start of her journey. Kara embraces the whole community, persevering through her own adv...

139. Using Heart Rate Data, Improving Hemoglobin Mass, and SHOE NEWS! 31.01.2023

This week's episode was such a fun romp! The main training topic involved the often-overlooked variable of hemoglobin mass, and how optimizing hemoglobin levels for your individual genetics could help you bring out your inner aerobic monster. Important considerations: training intensity/stress, nutrition, iron intake, and oxygen stress like altitude... plus some wild new science on how year-round...

138. How To Set Heart Rate Zones, Eating Before and After Runs, and CARB LOVE! 24.01.2023

This week’s episode was a total joy ride! The main training topic involved how underperformance is linked with reduced adaptation rates, with possible connections to endocrine system responses. That has major implications for how we approach training and life stress, plus eating before and after runs! We also talked about how to approximate heart rate zones with a small amount of data. You’ll neve...

137. Heart Rate Tips, WILD Science on Microbiome and Motivation, and Enhancing Adaptations! 17.01.2023

This week's episode was such a joyful treat! The main training topic involved understanding training intensity in the context of heart rate drift, where the heart rate rises across an activity. That's especially important for improving aerobic threshold over time, a key to performance at all distances! We also talked about our new FAVORITE STUDY OF ALL TIME, on how the microbiome may influence mot...

136. The Art and Science of Easy Running, Bandera 100k Recap, and Core Values! 10.01.2023

This episode was such a joyous (and loving) way to kick off 2023! The main training topic addressed one of the toughest and most important questions for all endurance training: what does "easy" actually mean in practice? The answer is nuanced, diving into athlete background, physiology, and goals. Athletes who figure out how to live in that uncertain space can get SO MUCH FASTER, and have more fun...

135. Amelia Boone Interview! Learning to Love Yourself and Crush Souls 03.01.2023

We had the most fun and inspiring interview with one of our best friends in the whole world, Amelia Boone! Amelia is a world-class athlete with 4 world championships in obstacle course racing, a recent win at the Spartan Trail 100k World Championships, and numerous other accomplishments. Those accolades led to magazine covers and a public profile at times when she was working through an internal j...

134. The Ultimate 2022 Top-10 List, Trail Runners v. Road Runners, and Training Races! 27.12.2022

The 2022 celebration episode brought all of the joy! We started with a holiday recap, including a burst-pipe adventure and a VERY IMPORTANT digression about vibrators. This week's big training tip involves a stunning study on self-talk, showing downright bonkers results. Other topics: the ULTIMATE  top-10 list for 2022 (we promise that it is vaguely running related), our theory on using races...

133. Improving Fatigue Resistance, Loving Pressure, and Endocrine System Training! 20.12.2022

This episode brought the science and the FUN! We started with an overview of studies on penalty kicks, leading to a broader discussion on managing pressure over time in sports and life. It's all about shooting those shots, with openness and vulnerability! This week's big training tip is on encouraging adaptation through a training framework that considers the endocrine system. It's important for r...

132. Alex Honnold Interview! One of the Best Athletes Ever Talks Training and Life 13.12.2022

We had a fantastic, life-changing interview with one of our heroes, Alex Honnold! You probably know Alex from the movie Free Solo, which documented his climb of El Capitan in Yosemite, possibly the most historic athletic achievement ever. But did you know that Alex is also a runner, recently completing a 50k, with plans for more? It was SO FREAKING FUN to pick his brain on climbing and running tra...

131. Uphill v. Downhill Pacing, Barefoot Running Benefits (Seriously), and Toughness! 06.12.2022

This episode had it all, with some of the most fun training and life topics! We kicked it off with a training discussion that could improve your form and strength FOREVER... and it involves barefoot running. We are not ashamed to speak our barefoot running truth! The main training discussion is on a new study looking at 16,518 race results to determine whether uphill or downhill splits are the mos...

130. World Champ Training Tips, Why Strides Work, and Cross Training Science! 29.11.2022

This episode was a total treat, getting to talk about some of the best topics! We started with the ONE FORM TIP THAT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE... maybe. It involves your glutes, so that has to be good. The main discussion is on 5 takeaways from World Champ Adam Peterman's training that can apply to all athletes, including how to balance intensity and using cross training strategically. Other topics: r...

129. Adam Peterman Interview! Western States 100 Winner and World Champ on Life, Training, and Kindness 22.11.2022

We got to have a joyous, wide-ranging interview with the athlete who has quietly had one of the greatest running seasons ever, Adam Peterman! He is so kind, funny, and gracious, and we can't wait for you to get to know him in a deeper way during this episode. Adam's last year of racing has been mind-blowing, with wins at the JFK 50 Miler, Chuckanut 50k, Canyons 100k, Western States 100, and the Wo...

128. Importance of "Moderate" Running, Family Adventures, and Love and Inclusion in Sports! 15.11.2022

It's the ultimate celebration episode, full of fun training and life talk! We started with a joyful reflection about navigating through the dark forests in life, and how the path that starts out broken and sad can evolve in ways you never imagine (like with a FREAKING BABY). Then we hit on a bunch of running and life topics: why steady/moderate running is often overlooked in training plans, how to...

127. Weekly Mileage, 8 Courtney Dauwalter Training Takeaways, and Overcoming Low Motivation! 08.11.2022

Today's episode is such a fun discussion of cool training ideas, mental health rollercoasters, and life swerves! The main discussion is on 8 takeaways from Courtney Dauwalter's training to become the best in the world, collected from our interview with her and every other source we could get our hands on. We provide an analysis of weekly mileage (and how that will vary for athletes with different...

126. Norwegian Training Breakdown! The Approach Taking Over the Endurance World 01.11.2022

This episode explores the science and theory behind one of the most exciting training approaches in the world! Some athletes from Norway are using variations of intensity-controlled threshold training, double-workouts, and focused specific work to great success on the international stage. While the specifics of the Norwegian approach to endurance training may not apply to everyone, the principles...

125. How To Build Aerobic Base All Year, Speed Development, and 5 Debates About Gear! 25.10.2022

We considered an ABBB tattoo ("Always Be Base Building") before a joyous episode on the importance of aerobic reinforcement, debates about gear choices, and existential questions about running! The main topics: the difference between offseason and base-building, why aerobic base needs to be a year-round focus, how to include speed development both before and during base periods, Alex Honnold's adv...

124. Wild Taper Science, Our Big Nutrition Rule, and 6 Racing Lessons! 18.10.2022

We ate a pint of snickerdoodle ice cream to prepare for a fun episode on tapering, racing, and fueling! The main topics: wild taper approaches from elite athletes involving very long runs relatively close to race day, why tapers vary and what that might mean for your next race, muscle fiber typology during training and detraining, a deep conversation on nutrition and why our message is to eat food...

123. Courtney Dauwalter Interview! The Legend Talks Training, Life, and Hallucinations 11.10.2022

We got to interview the brilliant, kind, and HILARIOUS Courtney Dauwalter! Courtney has won UTMB twice, the Hardrock 100, the Western States 100, and established herself as an absolute force of nature that transcends running. In this episode, we dug deep on her training theory, from weekly mileage to workouts to rest days. But even more fun was a deep conversation about life and motivation. This e...

122. Marathon Principles, 4 Eliud Kipchoge Training Reactions, and Process-Focus Science! 04.10.2022

We got VERY EXCITED about enchiladas before an invigorating episode on training and intrinsic motivation! The main topics: 3 marathon training principles that apply to all endurance runners, the magic of long runs that build aerobic lipidic power, 4 follow-up discussions about Eliud Kipchoge's training before setting the world record, recent studies on why process-motivation supports well-being an...

121. Eliud Kipchoge's Marathon Training, Running as a Power Sport, and Aging Superpowers! 27.09.2022

We listened to some very, VERY fun audio recordings before a joyous episode on growth and training theory! The main discussion is on Eliud Kipchoge's training, using a mix of sources to come up with 6 lessons for everyone. Zone 1 easy running, controlled workouts around 80% capacity, high (but not wild) volume, long runs with tempo, a growth lifestyle, and so much more! We also chatted about recen...

120. Long Run Theories, 10 Kilian Training Reactions, and Fasted Running Thoughts! 20.09.2022

We embraced the pizza underwear process before having such a fun episode with lots of training and life topics! The big training discussion revolved around 10 reactions to the approach that Kilian Jornet used to become the GOAT. Get ready for a buffet of the hottest training takes on: doubles, the theory of long runs and why they don't need to be too long, the complexity of fasted training, Zone 1...

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