Lawfare & University of Texas Law School
Scaling Laws
Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the ones that are top of mind for tech-savvy law and policy students. Co-hosts Alan Rozenshtein, Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas and Senior Editor at Lawfare, dive into the intersection of AI, innovation policy, and the law through regular interviews with the folks deep in the weeds of developing, regu...
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Author
Lawfare & University of Texas Law School
Category
Podcast website
Latest episode
Oct 13, 2026
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Episodes
Rapid Response Pod: Trump's New AI Framework with Helen Toner & Dean Ball 21.03.2026 25:23
On Friday, March 20, the Trump Administration announced a National Policy Framework for AI . White House officials have stressed that they want Congress to act on the framework's recommendations within the year . What this all means for AI policy is an open question that warrants calling in two of the smartest folks in the business: Helen Toner, Interim Executive Directo...
Is AI a Death Sentence for Civic Institutions?, with Jessica Silbey and Woodrow Hartzog 17.03.2026 53:11
Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Woodrow Hartzog, the Andrew R. Randall Professor of Law at Boston University School of Law, and Jessica Silbey, Professor of Law and Honorable Frank R. Kenison Distinguished Scholar in Law at Boston University School of Law, about their new paper "How AI Destroys Institutions," which argues that AI systems threaten to erode the...
Can AI Enable Human Agency?, with Tomicah Tillemann 13.03.2026 46:13
Tomicah Tillemann , President at Project Liberty Institute, joins the show. Tomicah offers a unique perspective on regulating emerging technology given his time as a venture capitalist and head of policy at Andreessen Horowitz and Haun Ventures. His contemporary focus is on identifying “policy solutions that enable human agency and human flourishing in an AI-powered world.” It’s a tall order that...
Live from Ashby: Taking a Long View on AI Governance with Austin Carson and Caleb Watney 10.03.2026 58:24
Kevin Frazier hangs out with Caleb Watney of the Institute for Progress and Austin Carson of SeedAI at the Ashby Workshops to discuss the long-run policy foundations needed for the AI Age. Rather than focusing on near-term regulation, the conversation explores how AI challenges existing assumptions about state capacity, research funding, talent pipelines, and institutional design. Caleb and Austin...
Scaling Laws x AI Summer: Who Controls the Machine God? 06.03.2026 57:40
Alan Rozenshtein, associate professor of law at the University of Minnesota and research director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and senior editor at Lawfare, were joined by Dean Ball, senior fellow at the Foundation for American Innovation and author of the Hyperdimensional newsletter, and Timothy B. Lee, author of the Understa...
In Defense of Optimism with Packy McCormick 03.03.2026 46:06
Packy McCormick, founder of Not Boring and Not Boring Capital, joins Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, to discuss the power of narratives in tech, the intersection of investing and policy, and what it means to build frameworks for the future in an age of rapid technologic...
The Pentagon Goes to War With Anthropic 27.02.2026 46:02
An impasse is coming to a head. The resolution is unknown. The Department of Defense has made clear that Anthropic has until 5:01pm ET today, February 27th, 2026, to permit its use of Claude for any lawful purpose. CEO Dario Amodei doubled down on his insistence that Anthropic tools should not be used for mass domestic surveillance or the operation of lethal autonomous weapons. The Pen...
Can AI Make AI Regulation Cheaper?, with Cullen O'Keefe and Kevin Frazier 24.02.2026 51:43
Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Cullen O'Keefe, research director at the Institute for Law & AI, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law and senior editor at Lawfare, about their paper, "Automated Compliance and the Regulation of AI" (and associated Lawfare article ), which argues that AI sy...
Claude's Constitution, with Amanda Askell 20.02.2026 47:25
Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, senior editor at Lawfare, spoke with Amanda Askell, head of personality alignment at Anthropic, about Claude's Constitution : a 20,000-word document that describes the values, character, and ethical framework of Anthropic's flagship AI model and plays a direct role in its training. The conversation covered how the constitutio...
Live from Ashby: Adaptive AI Governance with Gillian Hadfield and Andrew Freedman 17.02.2026 54:35
Kevin Frazier sits down with Andrew Freedman of Fathom and Gillian Hadfield , AI governance scholar, at the Ashby Workshops to examine innovative models for AI regulation. They discuss: Why traditional regulation struggles with rapid AI innovation. The concept of Regulatory Markets and how it aligns with the unique governance challenges posed by AI. Critiques of hybrid governance: concerns about a...
The Persuasion Machine: David Rand on How LLMs Can Reshape Political Beliefs 10.02.2026 58:05
Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, and Renee DiResta, associate research professor at Georgetown University's McCourt School of Public Policy and contributing editor at Lawfare, spoke with David Rand, professor of information science, marketing, and psychology at Cornell University. The conversation covered how inattention to accuracy drives misinformation sharing and the effectivenes...
Alan and Kevin join the Cognitive Revolution. 03.02.2026 1:31:07
Nathan Labenz, host of the Cognitive Revolution, sat down with Alan and Kevin to talk about the intersection of AI and the law. The trio explore everything from how AI may address the shortage of attorneys in rural communities to the feasibility and desirability of the so-called "Right to Compute." Learn more about the Cognitive Revolution here. It's our second favorite AI...
Is this your last "job"? The AI Economy With AEI's Brent Orrell 27.01.2026 51:03
Most folks agree that AI is going to drastically change our economy, the nature of work, and the labor market. What's unclear is when those changes will take place and how best Americans can navigate the transition. Brent Orrell , senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, joins Kevin Frazier, a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, the Director of the AI Innovation and L...
Rapid Response Pod on The Implications of Claude's New Constitution 22.01.2026 55:44
Jakub Kraus, a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare , spoke with Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and Research Director at Lawfare , and Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law, a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, and a Senior Editor at Lawfare , about Anthropic's newly released "constitution...
The Honorable AI? Shlomo Klapper Talks Judicial Use of AI 20.01.2026 42:41
Shlomo Klapper , founder of Learned Hand , joins Kevin Frazier, the Director of the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law, a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the rise of judicial AI, the challenges of scaling technology inside courts, and the implications for legitimacy, due process, and access to justice. Ho...
How AI Can Transform Local Criminal Justice, with Francis Shen 13.01.2026 51:48
Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Francis Shen, Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota, director of the Shen Neurolaw Lab, and candidate for Hennepin County Attorney. The conversation covered the intersection of neuroscience, AI, and criminal justice; how AI tools can improve criminal investigations and clearance rates; the role of AI in adjudication and plea nego...
Release Schedules and Iterative Deployment with Open AI's Ziad Reslan 06.01.2026 51:08
Ziad Reslan, a member of OpenAI’s Product Policy Staff and a Senior Fellow with the Schmidt Program on Artificial Intelligence, Emerging Technologies, and National Power at Yale University, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to talk about iterative deployment--the lab’s approach to testing and deploying its mod...
A Year That Felt Like a Decade: 2025 Recap with Sen. Maroney & Neil Chilson 30.12.2025 53:48
Connecticut State Senator James Maroney and Neil Chilson, Head of AI Policy at the Abundance Institute, join Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, and Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, for a look back at a wild year in AI policy. Neil provides his expert analysi...
Cass Sunstein on What AI Can and Cannot Do 23.12.2025 43:03
Alan Z. Rozenshtein, Lawfare senior editor and associate professor of law the University of Minnesota, speaks with Cass Sunstein, the Robert Walmsley University Professor at Harvard University, about his new book, Imperfect Oracle: What AI Can and Cannot Do . They discuss when we should trust algorithms over our own judgment, why AI can eliminate the noise and bias that plague human decision...
AI Chatbots and the Future of Free Expression with Jacob Mchangama and Jacob Shapiro 16.12.2025 53:51
Renée DiResta, Lawfare contributing editor and associate research professor at Georgetown's McCourt School of Public Policy, and Alan Z. Rozenshtein, Lawfare senior editor and associate professor of law the University of Minnesota, spoke with Jacob Mchangama, research professor of political science at Vanderbilt University and founder of The Future of Free Speech, and Jacob Shapiro, the John Foste...
Rapid Response Pod on the AI Preemption Executive Order 12.12.2025 56:12
In this rapid response episode, Lawfare senior editors Alan Rozenshtein and Kevin Frazier and Lawfare Tarbell fellow Jakub Kraus discuss President Trump's new executive order on federal preemption of state AI laws, the politics of AI regulation and the split between Silicon Valley Republicans and MAGA populists, and the administration's decision to allow Nvidia to export H200 chips to China....
Graham Dufault on small businesses and navigating EU AI laws 09.12.2025 45:17
Graham Dufault, General Counsel at ACT | The App Association, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to explore how small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) are navigating the EU's AI regulatory framework. The duo breakdown the Association's recent survey of SMEs , which included the views of more than 1,000 ente...
Caleb Withers on the Cybersecurity Frontier in the Age of AI 02.12.2025 48:17
Caleb Withers , a researcher at the Center for a New American Security, joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss how frontier models shift the balance in favor of attackers in cyberspace. The two discuss how labs and governments can take steps to address these asymmetries favoring attackers, and the fu...
A Startup's Perspective on AI Policy 25.11.2025 51:48
Andrew Prystai, CEO and co-founder of Vesta, and Thomas Bueler-Faudree, co-founder of August Law, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to think through AI policy from the startup perspective. Andrew and Thomas are the sorts of entrepreneurs that politicians on both sides of the aisle talk about at tow...
Anthropic's General Counsel, Jeff Bleich, Explores the Intersection of Law, Business, and Emerging Technology 18.11.2025 36:51
Jeff Bleich, General Counsel at Anthropic, former Chief Legal Officer at Cruise, and former Ambassador to Australia during the Obama administration, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to get a sense of how the practice of law looks at the edge of the AI frontier. The two also review how Jeff’s prior work in the...
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