Off-Trail Learning

Martina Geromin is the CEO and Co-Founder of School Beyond Limitations (school-beyond-limitations.com). Originally from Italy, Martina has lived and worked in Austria, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom. We discuss the state of self-directed education in Europe (including homeschooling and alternative schools), cultural differences and institutional differences between the U.S. and Europe, and wh...

Dr. Naomi Fisher is a clinical psychologist, mother of two self-directed learners, and the author of the forthcoming book, "Changing Our Minds: How children can take control of their own learning." In this deep-dive interview, Naomi and I dissect the modern culture of “intensive parenting” and the research behind Judith Rich Harris’ controversial book, "The Nurture Assumption." We address some tho...

Dev Carey is the founder and co-director of the High Desert Center in Paonia, Colorado (highdesertcenter.org), where he’s been offering an adventurous, affordable, and highly alternative gap year program for more than six years. We discuss his approach to working with 16- to 23-year-olds, the most common issues they face, and the lessons they learn through his 9-month program that combines communa...

Prisma (joinprisma.com) is a brand-new company that’s attempting to combine the best parts of homeschooling with the best parts of online education. In this episode I speak with Victoria Ransom, who co-founded Prisma alongside her husband Alain Chuard, about the Prisma model, who it’s for, how self-directed it is, why they don’t do grades or transcripts, and their vision for expanding Prisma into...

What does it mean to educate in freedom? What are the different flavors of “freedom” that appear in the self-directed education world? In this live interview (recorded in January 2020) I speak with Alexander Khost, Editor-in-Chief of Tipping Points, the online magazine of The Alliance for Self-Directed Education, and a facilitator at Brooklyn Apple Academy. We discuss a controversial pair of artic...

What’s it like to be someone who knows a little bit about everything? Or sometimes, a *lot* about everything? Ethan Mitchell (zemita.net) is a teacher and essayist who lives on a sheep farm in Vermont, attended just one semester of college, and writes an underground newsletter called the “Hebdromodary.” In this interview we talk about Ethan’s wide-ranging interests, self-directed learning path, nu...

If you have a kid who has been identified as academically gifted, is a self-directed learning center a good place for them? Kristen Montesano, co-founder of EPIC Life Learning Community in Dallas, Texas (epiclifelearningcommunity.com), grew up in public school gifted programs, yet she was still bored and unchallenged. In college she began volunteering at a democratic free school which soon inspire...

In May 2020, Elizabeth Bartholet, a Harvard Law Professor, called for significant new regulations on homeschooling in the United States. In this extra-long episode, I interview Professor Bartholet about her ideas, research, and proposals. We are joined by Rachel Coleman, executive director of the Coalition for Responsible Home Education — and a grown homeschooler herself — who contributes a wealth...

Many teachers aspire to work at progressive schools that are more kind, individualized, and humane. But what do you do when even the “best schools” still treat kids with distrust and coercion? Aaron Eden has asked this question over his long career in education, ultimately leading him to his current position as Executive Director at the Institute for Applied Tinkering (which oversees the Brightwor...

This special episode celebrates the release of Blake’s new book, Why Are You Still Sending Your Kids to School?, which is now available through local bookstores, Amazon.com, and other marketplaces. Joined by guest host Kevin Currie-Knight, Blake discusses how kids learn to work hard when given the freedom to self-direct, the nature of “intensive parenting,” the true value of a college degree, and...

James Dwyer is a professor of law at William & Mary Law School and the co-author of Homeschooling: The History & Philosophy of a Controversial Practice (University of Chicago Press, 2019). Following the arc of Jim’s excellent book (co-authored with historian Shawn Peters), we discuss some foundational questions related to homeschooling, such as: What is the state’s role in family affairs? To what...

17-year-old Zoe Greenhouse (zoegreenhouse.com) talks about her recent decision to stop going to school and attempt a thru-hike of the 2,650-mile Pacific Crest Trail (PCT). Zoe discusses her background as an unschooler and world-schooler, the handful of private and public schools she attended, her decision to leave school and spend 5+ months on the PCT, and how she has prepared for the journey. Zoe...

Maya Landers (mayalanders.com) is a 22-year-old lifelong unschooler from Austin, Texas, who always thought she would go to college to study English. Yet at 17 she opted to take a gap year… followed by another gap year… which turned into another gap year…. and yet another! We discuss Maya’s decision-making process regarding college, how she spent her gap years (doing a combination of writing, volun...

After teaching 6th grade reading at a tough school in Mississippi, Matthew Gioia discovered the Sudbury Valley School literature and quickly became enamored. Like many people (myself included) Sudbury represents an idyllic philosophy that leaves behind the baggage of conventional education. But how do the ideals match up with actual Sudbury schools? Matthew joins me to discuss the day-to-day reali...

Kerry McDonald (fee.org/kerry) is the author of the 2019 book, Unschooled: Raising Curious, Well-Educated Children Outside the Conventional Classroom, as well as a regular contributor to Forbes, the Cato Institute, and the Foundation for Economic Education. We discuss Kerry’s faith in the private sector to nurture innovative education models, what sets her book apart from others, her path through...

Gina Riley, Ph. D., is an educational psychologist and Clinical Professor of Adolescent Special Education at Hunter College in New York City. She's also the leading researcher on the connection between unschooling and Self-Determination Theory. Gina discusses the three factors that generate intrinsic motivation (competence, autonomy, and relatedness), why kids like extracurriculars more than schoo...

Ken Danford is the Executive Director of North Star (northstarteens.org), author of the new book "Learning is Natural, School is Optional", and the first guest to ever appear on this podcast. In this episode we discuss the Liberated Learners network through which Ken helps other people start centers similar to his, his advice for starting a new center (hint: talk to everyone in town, and don’t rel...

What if there was a community college built just for homeschoolers? This may not exist yet, but Lori Walker has created the next best thing: Village Home Education Resource Center (villagehome.org). For 17 years Village Home has served young people (from pre-k through high school) in and around Portland, Oregon. Learners choose between a huge diversity of classes (costing roughly $110 each), hang...

What does it mean to “self-educate?” Are autodidacts made or born? Can one develop an intellect without formal higher education? In this special episode, Blake discusses these big questions (and many more) with Bill Deresiewicz (the author of Excellent Sheep) and guest facilitator Dev Carey. This event was recorded live in Portland, Oregon, on September 1, 2019, at the Wayfinding Academy. Learn mo...

Antonio Buehler was the first person in his family to finish high school or attend college. After completing an MBA at Stanford he went into investment banking and private equity before becoming deeply impressed by homeschooling and creating his own self-directed learning center in Austin, Texas, called Abrome (abrome.com). In this episode Antonio talks with Blake about what colleges—especially hi...

Where is the alternative education movement headed, and how will we arrive there? In this special episode, Blake gives the closing keynote at the AERO (Alternative Education Resource Organization) conference in Portland, Oregon on June 29th, 2019. Themes of the talk include: embracing the growing variety of alternatives, tackling unsexy but important challenges like school finances, doing better r...

What are "children's rights" and how do they overlap with the world of self-directed learning? Margie Sanderson, a 24-year-old board member of the National Youth Right Association (youthrights.org), talks with me about the different conceptions of children's rights (also called youth rights), the many ways of empowering young people to participate in society like adults, lowering the voting age, c...

After a successful career as a venture capitalist, Ted Dintersmith (teddintersmith.com)dedicated himself to discovering highly innovative schools around the United States, leading him to produce the 2015 documentary, Most Likely to Succeed, and his 2018 book, What School Could Be. Ted and I discuss his movie, math education, college-for-all, grit, and whether public schools will ever really change...

If conventional high school isn't a good fit for your kid, what should you do -- push harder, or try something new? Is high school mandatory for college, career, and a successful transition to adulthood? In this special episode, recorded live at the CHN Family Expo conference in southern California on May 4th, 2019, Blake explains why "Yes, You Can Quit High School and Everything Will Turn Out Oka...

Jerry Mintz founded the Alternative Education Resource Organization (AERO) over 30 years ago and has since helped start over 50 learner-centered schools. In this special episode, Jerry and I interview each other about the state of alternative education in the world and what makes us hopeful that the movement is making progress. Explore the AERO website at www.educationrevolution.org and say hello...