Nobody Should Believe Me

In part two of our series on the lawsuit against Rady Children’s Hospital in San Diego, Andrea and Dr. Bex continue unpacking the story of Madison Meyer, whose medical journey led to a separation from her parents. After video surveillance at Rady’s starts, a series of escalating concerns, reports to child protective services, and ultimately, a court order removing her from parental custody follows...

In the first part of our four part Case Files series diving into the upcoming lawsuit against Rady Children’s in San Diego, Andrea and Dr. Bex start with looking into preteen Madison Meyer’s string of diagnoses like Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, POTS, CRPS, and more. They break down what these conditions are and why they - coupled with Madison’s rapid decline - raised red flags.  *** This podcast is not...

In season 5, we shared a bit of Andrea’s conversation with her parents, and we’re releasing even more in this episode of case files. If you’ve been with us from the beginning, you’re familiar with Andrea’s sister's case. Today we hear from Megan and Andrea’s parents as they reflect on their experiences and share their hopes for their grandchildren.   *** Listen to the NSBM episodes about Megan:  S...

In this week’s episode of Case Files, we’re joined by Rachel Bernstein, a therapist specializing in cults and the host of the podcast IndoctriNation. Andrea and Rachel delve into the crossover between those in the sphere of Munchausen by Proxy perpetrators and cults. Rachel talks about the complexity of cult dynamics, the emotional and psychological impacts on families, and the challenges faced by...

In this episode, Andrea is joined by Celisia Stanton, the host and creator of Truer Crime. Andrea and Celisia dive into the Susan Smith case, a story that garnered national attention in the 90s. Through talking about the case, they segue into the complex themes surrounding false accusations, media representation, racial bias, mental health, and the nature of violence. Andrea and Celisia discuss th...

This week, our Andrea is joined by Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal and There and Gone: South Street. Gunning speaks on her transition from television to podcasting. They both discuss the ethical consideration of the real-world consequences of sharing true crime stories, as well as the emotional weight of telling these stories with care. Gunning and Dunlop reflect on the healing power...

We have a very special bonus episode for you all! Andrea is joined by Brittani Ard, the host and creator of the breakout show, You Probably Think This Story’s About You. Listeners get to hear how Andrea and Britt evolved their shows from what started off as limited series into what they are today. They touch on why they both decided to independently produce their shows, the art of storytelling, th...

Welcome to our Season 5 Mailbag Episode! This time we’re joined by more of our fabulous Nobody Should Believe Me team: head producer Myrriah Gossett, lead researcher Erin Ajayi, story editor Nichole Hill, and producer Greta Stromquist. The team addresses questions about our coverage of Sophie’s faith, the role that race played in this season, behind-the-scenes of our touching interview with Chalic...

We have a very fun guest on NSBM Case Files this week: V Spehar aka Under the Desk News! In this engaging conversation, V and Andrea discuss the whirlwind that has been the beginning of 2025, the importance of ethical responsibility in media and journalism, and working through the gut-punch of grief. They discuss how their careers pivoted in unexpected, but amazing ways and how their personal expe...

To officially wrap up season 5, we’ve brought in our friend, Detective Mike Weber, to discuss his thoughts on the police investigation into Sophie Hartman. He walks listeners through the extensive police reports and analyzes the evidence collected, including Sophie’s journal entries. Andrea and Detective Mike discuss the complexities surrounding child abuse cases, particularly the influence of fam...

Episode 8 was originally our season finale, but a source we’d been speaking to for months bravely decided to go on the record. This is Andrea’s conversation with Chalice Howard, Sophie’s friend of nearly 10 years.  With many similarities, being white single moms of adoptive black daughters and a shared faith, Chalice and Sophie found a kinship with each other despite living on opposite sides of th...

In our season finale, we see Sophie Hartman follow in the footsteps of the Kowalski family, Andrea’s sister Megan Carter and others, as she files a lawsuit against Seattle Children’s and the others who investigated her for Medical Child Abuse. Journalist Olivia LaVoice shares her thoughts about how this has all played out.  We hear Sophie rebranding herself as a ‘falsely accused’ mother in a visit...

We examine perhaps the most important piece of the complex puzzle of the Hartman case: what Sophie wrote about it in her journals.  We’re joined by Dr. James Hamilton, an MBP expert with a PhD in clinical psychology, to walk us through some of Sophie’s most chilling journal entries collected in the case files. We also look at Sophie’s disturbing internet search history during the time of C’s alleg...

Sophie insists to police and others that the real problem isn’t that she’s abusing her daughter but that Seattle Children’s–a world class pediatric hospital–simply doesn’t understand her daughter’s rare condition: Alternating Hemiplegia of Childhood.    But according to police interviews, very few people in C’s orbit ever witnessed an episode, and if they did, they described symptoms that, alone,...

It's pub day!! The Mother Next Door is officially out in the world. Thank you to everyone for all of your support! For our amazing podcast listeners, we have a very special treat for you: a 40 MINUTE exclusive excerpt of the audiobook! Enjoy! *** Order The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ Catch Andrea a...

In 2020, the Hartmans grow even more isolated as Covid hits: Sophie pulls C out of school citing worsening health and breaks with the church community who’ve been supporting her and her daughters.  Concerns for abuse grow as Sophie begins to push a new narrative that C has central precocious puberty (CPP), a condition that causes the body to go through puberty prematurely, After making an initial...

From corporate sponsorships to fundraisers large and small, Sophie Hartman was an expert at raising money for C’s various medical devices, mobility aids, and specialized treatments. But were any of these things actually needed?  We hear audio from the police interviews of Sophie’s next door neighbors and a school aide who note that they rarely saw C in her wheelchair.  We also take a closer look a...

Immediately after moving with C and M from Zambia to Seattle, WA, Sophie starts bringing C to various doctors, reporting severe health issues. Just three days after C’s third birthday, she is diagnosed with Alternating Hemiplegia of Childhood (AHC), a rare, one-in-a-million neurological disorder.  Simultaneously, Sophie enrolls her older daughter, M, in an elite gymnastics program. We speak to som...

In the second episode of season 5, Andrea dives into how Sophie’s Evangelical Christian beliefs colored her worldview. From claiming that adopting a child from Zambia was God’s path for her life to allegedly performing an exorcism, Sophie’s faith is an integral part of this case. We hear from Dr. Lauren Turek, an Associate Professor of History at Trinity University in San Antonio, TX and author of...

We begin the season by delving into Sophie Hartman’s 2016 memoir about her time in Zambia, Crowns of Beauty, where we learn about how a young woman from Michigan came to be the adopted mother of two Zambian girls by the age of 25. We learn about Sophie’s deep roots in evangelical Christianity and her state of mind prior to and during the adoptions of M and C; examining the way she portrays herself...

In this last bonus episode before our season 5 premiere next week, we’re airing Andrea’s conversation with Dr. Catherine Ayoub, an associate professor at Harvard Medical School, APSAC member, nurse practitioner, and counseling and consulting psychologist. Cathy tells listeners about her background and first encounter with Munchausen by Proxy. She and Andrea chat about the different groupings of pe...

Season five of Nobody Should Believe Me tells the story of Sophie Hartman: a young, white midwestern evangelical missionary who travels to Zambia and comes home with two vulnerable sisters in her care. When she returns to the states, she lands far away from her family in Seattle, WA where she embarks on a medical odyssey with her younger daughter, C, reporting a variety of alarming symptoms: from...

In the final part of our miniseries covering the Jesika Jones case, Andrea is once again joined by Detective Mike Weber, who shares the series of events from Jesika’s first bond violation through to her 60 year sentencing, from his perspective as law enforcement. He shares the differences in how seriously child abuse cases are taken when there’s a male vs female perpetrator, and the politics behin...

Welcome back to the 3rd installment of our 4-part series on the Jesika Jones case. In this episode, Andrea is wrapping up her conversation with Derek Jones. Derek recaps the fallout after Jesika’s lies finally start to unravel: the frustrating journey of working with the DA on the case, Jesika’s sentencing, and how his kids are doing today. Stay tuned for the final episode next week, where Andrea...

In the second episode of Andrea’s coverage of the Jesika Jones case, she’s joined by Derek Jones, Jesika’s then-husband. Derek bravely tells the story of how he and Jesika met, their home life, and the decline in their daughter's health. Talking to Derek gives listeners insight into the manipulative nature of perpetrators, not only with their victims, but also with everyone around them, and the me...