Kicking It Real

Actor and audition coach Spencer Glass is the founder of Spencer Glass Coaching, a professor, and a BroadwayWorld columnist who helps actors treat their careers like a business. Before he had a three-month waitlist, he was a musical theatre kid from Long Island who made it to five Radio City Christmas Spectacular singer calls and got cut every single time. In this episode of Kicking It Real, a for...

Former Radio City Rockette Keltie Knight is a three-time Emmy winner, a red carpet host for E! News, and the co-founder of the LadyGang podcast. Before the red carpet, she was a dancer who got cut from the Rockettes, auditioned for her own job, and danced for the New York Knicks, the Nets, and Beyoncé. In this episode of Kicking It Real, two former Rockettes talk about what a dance career really l...

Alyssa Lemons was a Radio City Rockette for ten years, and she was never once on the list. Every single year, she auditioned for her own job. Then one summer, she didn't get it back. Two former Rockettes, one conversation. We start with the ballet scholarship that ended before her freshman year began, with two partially torn tendons and a ligament in her ankle, and the Radio City touring show...

Amanda Kloots got cut from the Rockettes twice before she booked it. What came after: 16 years of performing, Broadway, a fitness brand, Dancing with the Stars, five seasons co-hosting The Talk, and now her own podcast. And she says none of it was a pivot. Two former Rockettes, one conversation. We get into what changed between her second and third Rockette audition, surviving the five show day er...

Lindsey Hanson has performed on Broadway, on the Radio City stage, on Sesame Street, and on cruise ships doing trapeze. And every time she got to the top of one corner of the dance world, she started over in a new one, on purpose. She danced with a contemporary jazz company through the Joffrey Ballet School, then cruise ships, then musical theater, then TV and film, and then played the White Queen...

Mary Page Nance is living proof of something every artist finds out eventually: talent can get you into the room, but your willingness to stay uncomfortable decides what you do once you're in it. She trained in modern dance at SUNY Purchase, made her Broadway debut in the original company of Finding Neverland, swung twenty tracks in Natasha, Pierre & The Great Comet of 1812, and went on to...

Julia Pontarelli packed her car, said goodbye to the only city she had ever called home, and moved to Seattle with two weeks to spare between the end of one dance career and the start of another. Losing the thing your whole life was built around rarely comes with a ceremony, most of the time it just quietly asks you who you are now that it is gone. Julia spent five years dancing for the Chicago Bu...

Natalie is back on Kicking It Real, and this conversation is proof that you're allowed to walk away from the thing you built your whole identity around and come out the other side more yourself, not less. She spent multiple seasons dancing with the Radio City Rockettes, performed on The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon and at a Madison Square Garden halftime show, and this past season quietl...

Bella Bernath will tell you that talent gets you in the room, but knowing your worth is what actually keeps you working, and keeps you sane while you are doing it. She started dancing at four years old, was teaching by fourteen, and graduated high school early just to buy herself more time before her move to LA. Within a few years she booked a six year run touring the world as a dancer for Maluma,...

Two years into taking his class, Mike Esperanza pulled Sam Assemany aside and told her to stop being so perfect, to mess it up a little. That is the fear underneath most desperation, the belief that if you are not flawless or constantly visible, someone is going to forget you exist, when usually the opposite is true. A Western Michigan University dance grad, Sam moved to New York in September of 2...

Clara Eaton Ribeiro used to stand on the podium wondering why she was the only one of her friends walking away with silver instead of gold. That is the trap of chasing recognition, the belief that a medal color could actually tell you how much you were worth, when it never really could. Clara spent six years performing professionally on cruise ships, training as an aerialist and dancing inside a s...

Antonio King spent a full month convinced one audition was going to define the rest of his career. That is the trap of wanting anything badly enough, the belief that a single yes or no from someone else could actually decide who you are, when it almost never does. A performer working professionally for over a decade, Antonio spent six years chasing his first national tour before landing Jersey Boy...

Khori Petinaud will tell you she almost strangled her dream before she learned how to hold it, and that might be the real thesis of this conversation. Sometimes the difference between wanting something and losing yourself to the wanting is just learning how to hold on a little looser. With Broadway credits spanning Aladdin, Moulin Rouge! The Musical, and Bob Fosse's Dancin' (plus a season...

Paula Leggett Chase didn't grow up dreaming of Broadway, and that might be the real thesis of this conversation. Sometimes the skill that changes your whole life is the one you go looking for last, not the one you were handed as a kid. Paula was a voice major at Indiana University, a gymnast with no formal dance training, and didn't take a real ballet class until she moved to New York in h...

Lizz Picini is the kind of guest who makes you want to throw out every box anyone has ever tried to put you in. There is a moment in every performance career where wearing every hat you own stops being a flex and starts being the whole job, and what you do with that weight says everything about who you actually are. Lizz has spent hers as a performer, dance captain, swing, and coach, most recently...

Today I sit down with Conor DeVoe. This conversation is a reminder that walking away from something does not always mean giving up on it, and that protecting yourself is not the same as quitting. He is a Coastal Carolina musical theater grad who built a career across regional theater and Disney Cruise Line, now on his seventh contract across four ships, puppeteering Olaf in Frozen and once coverin...

Ryan Hayes didn't take his first dance class until he was twenty years old, and this episode is proof that the timeline you think you're supposed to be on rarely has anything to do with the career you actually end up building. He went from a Spanish major who'd never set foot in a studio to earning a dance degree at Gonzaga, spending two years training at Steps Conservatory in New York...

Years before she ever thought she'd actually play her, Deanna Cudjoe performed Cassie's monologue in a college acting class and texted her old teacher the day she booked the real thing. Deanna is the middle of five kids born to Ghanaian immigrant parents, found ballet through a random beginner book she pulled out of her basement at ten years old, trained for eight years at Still Point Ball...

This episode felt like getting a download from someone a few steps further down a road I'm just starting to walk myself. Andrew Norlen is a Boston Conservatory grad who wrote the book that gathered over two hundred Broadway letters during the shutdown, founded a nonprofit working to open the first wellness and community space for performers in Manhattan, and somehow does all of that while serv...

This episode wrecked me a little, in the best way. I went into this conversation thinking I was catching up with someone whose childhood I half remember from Disney Channel, and I came out of it talking about identity, injury, and what it actually means to rebuild yourself twice. Jack Taylor played Dandruff Danny on Hannah Montana before most of us even knew what a career in entertainment could lo...

This episode felt less like recording a podcast and more like exactly what it is. Two WMU alums who haven't had a real sit-down in way too long, finally doing it on mic. If you haven't met Erzsi yet, she's the kind of person who stayed at her studio alone through her entire junior and senior year of high school when everyone else quit, paid off her student loans in months by taking a s...

In today's episode, my first ever repeat guest is back and honestly, it felt less like recording a podcast and more like exactly what it is. In today's episode, my first ever repeat guest is back and it felt less like recording a podcast and more like exactly what it is. Two best friends who used to train side by side in New York, sitting down and actually telling the truth. If you haven&#...

In today's episode, I sit down with Dr. Chloe Roberts; dancer, choreographer, Steps on Broadway faculty, Cooper Union professor, and the only person I know who holds a PhD in the history of witchcraft AND just sold out an evening-length dance show in New York City. She grew up in Houston (yes, another Roberts from Texas), trained at North Harris Performing Arts Academy, and built a career that...

In today's episode, I sit down with Lariscy Navera, a classically trained performer and national touring artist currently on the road with Sesame Street Live: Elmo's Got the Moves, to talk about what the journey of a working professional dancer actually looks like. Lariscy opens up about being diagnosed with anorexia at 13 after a single comment from a dance teacher, and what it looked lik...

Shanna Vanderwerker has one of the most full-circle careers in musical theater: swing in the Broadway company of Wicked, Dance Captain of the First National Tour for nearly five years, Jeff-nominated choreographer, and now a professor at Roosevelt University training the next generation. But the story behind those credits is anything but straight. In this episode, Shanna takes us through the rejec...