Jason Miller & Makenzie Wirth

Journey to an ESOP & Beyond

Business EN ↓ 264 episodes

ESOPs are gaining traction. In the "Journey to an ESOP & Beyond” podcast, Doeren Mayhew's Jason Miller and Makenzie Wirth explain the ESOP transaction process and address ESOPs from a business owner's perspective. They illuminate the simplicity of ESOPs and debunk common misconceptions that ESOPs are immensely costly and complicated. -- “Doeren Mayhew" is the brand name under which Doeren Mayhew Assurance and Doeren Mayhew Advisors, LLC and its subsidiary entities provide professional services. Doeren Mayhew Assurance and Doeren Mayhew Advisors, LLC (and its subsidiary entities) practice as an...

Author

Jason Miller & Makenzie Wirth

Category

Business

Podcast website

www.doeren.com

Latest episode

Jul 10, 2026

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Episodes

EP34 - Office Space - An analysis on ESOPs as C-Corps 05.10.2021

This episode covers the basics of C-Corp tax as it relates to ESOPs and provides an alternative to the 1042 to deal with Capital gains tax using code section 1202.

EP33 - Interview with Greg Daugherty ESOP attorney with Porter Wright from Columbus, OH to discuss the ESOP pre-funded strategy. 22.09.2021

This episode Greg and I discuss the pre-funded ESOP strategy as a way to take the tax deduction each year while planning for your ESOP leveraged transaction.  We discuss the pros and cons of this strategy that might give you some ideas about your own journey to an esop.

EP32 - Tommy Boy - "A reorg"...what does that mean? Trying to get both the 1042 and S-Corp exemption for ESOPs! 12.09.2021

This episode reviews the details of what is known as an A Reorg...for companies that are going Esop and are currently S-corps.  This opens up the topic of whether or not you can revoke the S-Corporation and then as a C-Corp take the 1042 capital gains tax deferral then immediately go back to an S-corporation which by IRS code should be a five year waiting period.  Some advisors use this as a tacti...

EP31 - A Partial ESOP - Experiences from newly formed ESOP company: AOTC - Brian Barnett and Todd McDowell 06.09.2021

This episode features a newly formed ESOP from 2020 - a company called AOTC with its owner Brian Barnett and Todd McDowell.  They chose to establish a partial ESOP as a business strategy not an immediate exit but to enhance a strong employee company culture.

EP30 - Spiderwick - Skeptics Scowl - myths and misconceptions of ESOPs 30.08.2021

This episode I discuss some common myths and misconceptions from experience with ESOP skeptics...thinking about the process of working the shareholders and advisors skepticism is an important and essential step on this journey to an ESOP.

EP29 - ESOPs as a solution for wealth inequality - discussion with Thomas Dudley - CEO of Certified EO. 19.08.2021

This episode evaluates the points of Thomas' recent article published at the Harvard Business School regarding ESOPs as a solution to the gap in wealth inequality.  Thomas and I discuss this socio-economic reality in our country and the possibilities that ESOPs create in helping to solve this national crisis.

EP28 - Godfather - ESOP plan design - planning for the deal you cannot refuse... 14.08.2021

This episode provides a decent overview of ESOP plan design that will give you some exposure to ESOP employee vesting, eligibility, allocation methods and other areas for you can be thinking about for your future ESOP.

EP27 - Discussion with Darren Gleeman MBO Ventures from New York - "ESOPs and capitalism" 09.08.2021

Darren Gleeman is a former Wall Street trader with his own entrepreneurial ventures.  He is active in the ESOP industry.  Our discussion is all about how ESOPs work to promote capitalism in America. podcast video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29tIx0XhjDE

EP26 - A few good men/women - interviewing an ESOP Trustee 30.07.2021

This episode is a little quirky as I struggle to do a Jack Nicholson impersonation - the interview process for finding the right trustee for your ESOP is a critical step.  This episode focuses on us what to ask when your transaction trustee and what you should get out of this important step on this journey to an esop. now

EP25 - The Spectrum of Fiduciary for ESOPs - interview with Rick Pearl of Faegre Drinke 26.07.2021

This episode provides a good overview of all of the roles in an ESOP company and their respective fiduciary responsibilities.  This was an interesting interview and might surprise some folks when it comes to what does fiduciary responsibility mean and who has it....

EP24 - King Kong - Growth versus Scalability for companies planning an ESOP 19.07.2021

This episode focuses in on the what do I do with my forecast - documenting revenue and profit growth that will enable a strong ESOP transaction which should be accompanied with a plan to get there...getting into the difference of growing your business versus scaling...and multiple tips on simple ideas that you may or may not have thought about already.

EP23 - Essence of Entrepreneurialism to support an ESOP transition and sustainability - Interview with Eleanore Rue from the perspective of a singer/songwriter from Nashville, TN 09.07.2021

This episode features an interview with singer/songwriter Eleanore Rue pushing forward in the Nashville area with a long term vision, product development, marketing, finance, and most of all courage.  (Oh yeah - she happens to be my daughter - who better to interview.) For companies considering an ESOP - being an entrepreneur is vital for the founding of a business and for the future sustainabilit...

EP22 - 100 foot Journey - an S-Corp with a side of 1042 03.07.2021

This episode reviews the current benefits of being S corporation ESOP and updates everyone on senate bill 1300 that could provide a new opportunity for a company to remain in S Corporation but also have the selling shareholders defer capital gains tax using the 1042 election.

EP21 - “Create Amazing” Interview with author Greg Graves, Retired, Chairman and CEO, Burns & McDonnell - ESOP company. 25.06.2021

This episode features an interview about Greg’s book and the principals he employed to crest an amazing culture leveraging the power of an ESOP.  Greg’s story includes leading one of the fastest-growing and most successful engineering, architecture, construction and environmental consulting firms in North America. Graves began his career at Burns & McDonnell in 1980, fresh out  of college. Twe...

EP20 - Forrest Gump versus John D. Rockefeller - leveraging successful business habits for your ESOP. 17.06.2021

This episode explores the 10 Rockefeller habits to help companies assess their business on their journey to an esop as to areas to improve as well as providing specific areas to support strengthening their leadership teams.

EP19 - Discussion with Peter Jones from Tucker Ellis - Value of Independence for ESOPs 04.06.2021

This episode provides a discussion with Peter Jones related to the requirements that ESOPs have independent board members and some best practices of having independent trustees.  Some insights into how to make this a positive for your ESOP.

EP18 - Lifecycles of ESOPs - discussion with James Urbach - ESOP trustee 31.05.2021

James Urbach has been doing ESOPs for the last 20 years transitioning from the Department of Labor to transacting ESOPs and providing the functional role as independent trustee.  He has some great insight into the lifecycle of an ESOP company!

EP17 - Perfect Storm - ESOP Tsunami - predicting many more ESOPs over next ten years 21.05.2021

This episode focuses on factual data and interpretive trends to evaluate what is going to happen in new ESOPs over next ten years not more importantly why....

EP16 – ESOP Politics – discussion with Renee Lewis from Holland and Knight – Chicago, IL 15.05.2021

In this episode, Renee and I discuss the current political climate as it relates to ESOP with a particular focus on the new administration.  What should we expect in the future relative to the government’s support of this awesome opportunity for selling shareholders, their companies, and their employees?

EP15 - Taken- selecting the right advisor for your ESOP. 07.05.2021

This episode outlines the roles  as responsibilities of multiple advisors along your journey to an ESOP.  There are insights into selecting the right advisor for your situation and general tips on qualifying them to support you in the short and long term as well as help you avoid possible pitfalls.

EP14 - Why ESOP culture makes a difference! Discussion with Daniel Goldstein from Folience - a portfolio of ESOP companies. 02.05.2021

In this episode - Daniel and I discuss the particular benefits of an ESOP to the employees - he does a great job of explaining their ESOP culture at Folience and the remarkable story of integrating other ESOP companies into Folience. This episode also digs into the reality of how ESOPs make a difference for all of our communities!

EP13 - You wanted to be a banker - financing your ESOP transaction. 23.04.2021

How much cash can you get at closing?  This episode provides some insight into how to approach the bank for financing as well as my own research in discussions with over 100 bankers in the last twelve months regarding their approach to financing ESOPs.

EP12 - Discussion on second stage ESOP transactions with James Bristol and Sean Sullivan with Waller Law Nashville, TN. 16.04.2021

In this discussion, ESOP attorneys James Bristol and Sean Sullivan walk out the background behind redemption versus sale of stock to ESOP typically used in second stage ESOP transactions supporting a partial ESOP sale strategy.  This connects well with Episode 11 regarding the Department of Labor topic.

EP11 - Pearl Harbor - DOL invasion for an ESOP transaction with redemption versus sale 09.04.2021

This episode delves into the DOL (department of labor) investigating ESOP transactions to help understand the potential structure of an ESOP transaction using redemption of stock versus the sale of stock to the ESOP.

EP10 - Interview with Nick Francia with UBS regarding the 1042 transaction. 31.03.2021

This episode covers the details of a 1042 transaction through a discussion with Nick Francia at UBS - we cover the floating rate notes and leveraging the qualified replacement property with either an active or passive investment strategy.

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