It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author James Montague to discuss his new book 'Engulfed' - exploring Saudi Arabia's massive investments in sport. James gives unique insights on the history of Saudi football, the Vision 2030 project, and how Newcastle United's takeover fits into the larger picture. You'll find out...

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. It's the final installment of our three-part series exploring the rise and fall of the American Soccer League. Jonathan and Rob dive into internal conflicts within the ASL, the 1929 Wall Street crash, and how its devastating effects exposed the vulnerabilities of the fledgling league. But all is not lost - with another significant attempt to establish profession...

In today's It Was What It Was , Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson continue to explore the fascinating story of soccer in the United States. Highlighting the pivotal role of immigrant communities in the sport's development, the episode also examines key figures like Bela Gutmann and the significant tours by foreign teams that attracted huge crowds. Join us for the conclusion of this three-part series...

In this episode of  It Was What It Was , Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson dive into the early history of soccer in the United States. They look at efforts to establish professional leagues, the influence of immigrant communities, and the geographic and cultural factors that made it difficult for football to gain a foothold - compared to rival American sports. This episode is the first of a thre...

Welcome back to  It Was What It Was . Rob and Jonathan are joined by David Corner - the man whose life was changed forever by the 1985 League Cup Final between Sunderland and Norwich. That match is remembered for a costly mistake that led to Sunderland’s defeat - a moment that saw David singled out, subjected to intense criticism and even physical abuse from his own fans. David shares his sto...

Welcome back to  It Was What It Was . With Liverpool and Newcastle set to battle for the first major trophy of the English domestic season on Sunday, we’re taking a journey through some of the greatest League Cup finals of all time.  Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper each share three of their favourite finals - games filled with drama, controversy, and unforgettable moments that have define...

Welcome back to  It Was What It Was . Mikel Arteta’s transformation of Arsenal, Unai Emery’s tactical mastery, Xabi Alonso’s meteoric rise at Bayer Leverkusen, and Andoni Iraola’s fearless pressing at AFC Bournemouth all highlight a remarkable trend: A new wave of coaches shaping the modern game, many of them from the Basque Country. But why does this small region produce so many elite manage...

Welcome back to  It Was What It Was . This week - we discuss the rise of Basque coaching. But we begin not in Bilbao or San Sebastián, but with a Catalan: Pep Guardiola. After revolutionising football with Barcelona, dominating in Germany with Bayern, and redefining the Premier League with Manchester City, Guardiola has become the defining coach of his era.  But after a turbulent season...

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This is the story of a new dawn - where one national team took full control of their destiny, cementing a legacy that continues to shape football today. Following their World Cup triumph (in our last part), the U.S. Women's side entered a new era of independence and power - and with it came major shifts. Coach Tony DiCicco became a casualty of the team’s growing...

Welcome back to  It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. . Approaching the end of the millennium, the U.S. women’s national team had already won a World Cup and Olympic gold, but they were still fighting for mainstream recognition. That all changed when they took centre stage at the 1999 Women’s World Cup. With 90,000 fans packing the Rose Bowl and millions watching around the worl...

Welcome back to  It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. . Despite not playing their first professional match until 1985, the U.S. Women won the inaugural World Cup in 1991. But even as champions, they faced inequality—most notably at the 1996 Olympics, where they were only promised pay  if  they won gold, while the men earned bonuses for any medal. Tennis icon Billie Jea...

Welcome back to  It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. In our new mini-series, we begin the journey of how women’s football in the U.S. rose to global dominance. And who better to start with than Carli Lloyd - one of the game’s greatest competitors and a key figure in that evolution? From the early struggles for recognition to back-to-back World Cup triumphs, Lloyd’s career...

Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. In this final chapter of our series, we complete the journey that began with Gary Neville reflecting on the legacy of the Busby Babes. We explored who they were before the 1958 Munich Air Disaster, the tragic day itself, and now, we turn to the aftermath: How Manchester United rose again. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take you thr...

Welcome back to  It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. In last week’s episode, we told the story of the rise of the Busby Babes, their brilliance, and their final match before tragedy struck. Today, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take you through the darkest day in Manchester United’s history: 6 February 1958. At Munich-Riem Airport, United’s flight stopped to refuel on its way h...

Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. Following Gary Neville’s tribute to the triumph and tragedy of the Busby Babes on the anniversary week of the Munich Air Disaster, we begin a three-part series on how the tragedy shaped the future of Manchester United. In Part One, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore who the Busby Babes were, how the term came to be, an...

Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. This week former Manchester United captain Gary Neville joins us to look back on one of the most momentous and tragic events in football history: The Munich air disaster of 1958. Neville discusses the lasting significance of the tragedy - and how Sir Matt Busby rebuilt the club, leading them to European Cup glory just a decade afte...

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Austrian footballer Matthias Sindelar was one of the greats of the game but his mysterious death in 1939 at the age of just 35 became a hugely contested issue in the darkest era of Austrian history. Was he murdered because he objected to the Nazis? Did he chose to end his life unable to countenance living under Hitler? Or was he the...

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Austrian footballer Matthias Sindelar was one of the greats of the game but his mysterious death in 1939 at the age of just 35 became a hugely contested issue in the darkest era of Austrian history. Was he murdered because he objected to the Nazis? Did he chose to end his life unable to countenance living under Hitler? Or was he the...

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. Jonathan and Rob continue exploring the extraordinary legacy of Bill Nicholson’s push and run game at Spurs and its relationship with Cruyff, Ajax, Barça and Total Football. In Part 4, Nicholson guides Spurs to the first league and cup double of the 20th century and Spurs become the first British club to win a European trophy. Don't forget to go back and li...

Welcome back to  It Was What It Was. Jonathan and Rob continue their dive into the career of Tottenham's legendary manager and one of the founding fathers of modern football: Bill Nicholson.  Don't forget to go back and listen to parts one and two with special guest and Spurs royalty Steve Perryman! If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was , please hit subscribe to never miss an episode...

Welcome back to  It Was What It Was. It's time for part two of Jonathan and Rob's chat with Spurs legend Steve Perryman about the club's legendary manager and one of the founding fathers of modern football: Bill Nicholson.  Hear more from Steve as he tells us backstage stories and insights on Nicholson from the training ground, the dressing room and White Hart Lane. Don't forget to go ba...

Welcome back to  It Was What It Was. This week, Jonathan and Rob are joined by Steve Perryman, Tottenham Hotspur’s record appearance holder, to talk about legendary Spurs manager Bill Nicholson.  From transforming Spurs into serial winners - to hilarious changing room stories - Steve takes us behind the scenes of one of the most successful sides of the 20th century. Join us on Friday for...

Welcome back to  It Was What It Was - for Part Two of our look back at The FA Cup’s most memorable Third Round upsets!   Jonathan and Rob return to tell the stories behind five more iconic moments from football's oldest cup competition - before the pair choose their ultimate Third Round shock. Please go back and listen to Part One if you missed it! If you’re enjoying the It Was What It W...

Welcome back to  It Was What It Was - where it's time to talk some of The FA Cup’s most memorable Third Round shocks!   The FA Cup is synonymous with dreams and giant-killings, and nothing captures its essence better than the Third Round proper. Jonathan and Rob bring us their favourite ‘cupsets’ and the stories that have cemented them in FA Cup folklor...

Welcome back to  It Was What It Was and Happy New Year!   In today’s episode, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson delve into the origins of VAR with author Daisy Christodoulou. Her latest book, I Can’t Stop Talking About VAR , discusses its profound impact on the sport, and whether it was designed to enhance football - or if football is now adapting to fit VAR. The evolution of football has n...