Hosted by Matt Hall and Naomi Ward. Produced by Emily Crosby and Kyra Kellawan.

Interbeing

Education EN ↓ 47 episodes

Interbeing is a podcast by MSB exploring what it means to lead, coach, and live in a deeply interconnected world. Hosted by Naomi Ward and Matt Hall, the show brings together educators, coaches, and thought leaders to reflect on the questions shaping international schools and beyond. In this new season we return to the heart of our work: coaching as a way of being. Together we explore how presence, curiosity, and care can shift not just our conversations, but our cultures. Inspired by Thich Nhat Hanh’s teaching on “interbeing,” we recognise that nothing exists in isolation — every choice, ever...

Author

Hosted by Matt Hall and Naomi Ward. Produced by Emily Crosby and Kyra Kellawan.

Category

Education

Podcast website

www.makingstuffbetter.com

Latest episode

Jan 15, 2026

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Episodes

S2Ep6: Data-Driven Wellbeing In Schools: How To Nurture DEIJ with Matthew Savage (part 1) 22.11.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Matthew Savage, speaker, trainer, coach, and founder of The Mona Lisa Effect®, through which Matthew explores the intersection between wellbeing and DEIJ in schools all around the world. In part 1 of a fascinating and value-packed conversation, they discuss why data is a question and n...

S2Ep5: Empowering Young Voices: Faith, Peace & Feminism with St. Mary's School 08.11.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by experienced educator and Headmistress of St. Mary’s School in Cambridge, Charlotte Avery , as well as friends and colleagues Kate Latham ,  Director of Teaching and Learning, and Amina.  They discuss the ideals at the heart of Mary Ward schools, the oft-overlooked importance of courage...

S2Ep4: How We Can Create Systemic Kindness with Sam Isaacson 25.10.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by author , consultant, and founder of Coachtech Collective , Sam Isaacson . They discuss the crucial attributes great leaders have and how these impact the organisations they lead, the importance of emotional intelligence and embracing our vulnerabilities, and how well-defined structures...

S2Ep3: Helping Young People Find Their Path With Kyra Kellawan 11.10.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by high-school educator, career counsellor, and co-founder of Kokoro Careers, Kyra Kellawan . They discuss the importance of embracing uniqueness and individuality in all students and why we need to recognise generational changes in both education and the workplace. How can we empower stu...

S2Ep1: An Introduction To Season 2: Organisational Health 27.09.2023

Principled is back! Welcome to Season 2 of the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better introduce their mission statement for an exciting second season. This time, we're exploring organisational health. What does it mean to create healthy systems? And how can we overcome the challenges currently faced by leaders in education? With the help of some f...

S2Ep2: Language As A Catalyst with Pádraig O Tuama 27.09.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by renowned poet and theologian,  Pádraig Ó Tuama . They're kicking off their exploration of systemic and organisational health from the perspective of a poet, discussing poetry as an unpredictable language event; the important secondary purpose of all organisations that should not b...

Ep 17: A Look Back on Season 1 16.08.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall , Naomi Ward and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better sit down to look back on a successful first season of Principled . They reflect on various lightbulb moments, including why belonging is not always a positive thing; the power of story, ritual and language; and why active listening is so important when trying to cultivate inclusive envi...

Ep16: Belonging And The Human Experience with Owen Eastwood 02.08.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better talk to Owen Eastwood , performance coach and author of the Belonging: The Ancient Code Of Togetherness . They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: the impact belonging has on our hormones, the link between resilience and belonging, and why we have a responsibility...

Ep15 ARCHIVE: Mel Ellis Leading Belong In An International School 19.07.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better revisit a popular episode from Season 1 of Principled . Episode 2 featured Mel Ellis , Head of the Dulwich College Senior School in Singapore. They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: why a sense of belonging is seen as an outcome rather than something to be consci...

Ep14: Why Belonging Starts With The Self with Aisha Thomas 05.07.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better talk to Aisha Thomas , Founder & Director of Representation Matters , who has dedicated her career to transforming the lack of racial diversity in education. They discuss how creating belonging starts with the self; why the question "do I belong?" will always be prevalent until society...

Ep13 ARCHIVE: Doug Lemov (Teach Like a Champion) Creating Belonging in the Classroom 21.06.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better revisit a popular episode from Season 1 of Principled . Episode 6 featured author Doug Lemov , chatting about various concepts arising from his book and online community, Teach Like A Champion . Doug's analytical approach to effective teaching made a lasting impact on the hosts. They discussed...

Ep12: Building a Unique Philosophy with Brett Girven 07.06.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better talk to Brett Girven , Principal at The Arbor School , about their innovative approach to breaking free from the confines of traditional learning. They discuss how a collaborative relationship with teaching and nature can foster belonging in children; why ecosophy is so vital to the philosophy of th...

Ep10: Global Belonging with d'Arcy Lunn 10.05.2023

In this episode of the Principled podcast, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to d'Arcy Lunn about the essence of global belonging. They discuss why d'Arcy draws so much inspiration, energy, and optimism from young people; how a sense of global citizenship can foster belonging; and how teaspoons of change can transform our world and our education model for the better. -...

Ep9: Midway Musings 26.04.2023

In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better  have a discussion between themselves about certain aspects of belonging. They discuss various topics, including: why a sense of belonging isn't necessarily born out of a fear of loneliness; how it can be beneficial to know yourself before joining a tribe; and Matt shares a wonderful poem by Pádraig Ó Tuama. --------------------...

Ep8 Julie Rees - Belonging in the Curriculum 12.04.2023

In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to Julie Rees about belonging within the curriculum. They discuss various topics based on the theme of belonging, including:  - How to welcome new and transferring students quickly and effectively by allowing them their own space - Why making students feel safe enough to express themselves honestly can lead to great things - The...

Ep7 Michael Cahill - Managing Endings 29.03.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to author Michael Cahill from Coaching Constellations about how to best manage the exit process. They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: why managing endings is crucial, not just to those directly involved, but also to those remaining who may get a glimpse of...

Ep6: Doug Lemov (Teach Like a Champion) Creating Belonging in the Classroom 15.03.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better   talk to author Doug Lemov about various concepts arising from his book and online community, Teach Like A Champion . They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: how the rise of smartphones and social media has led to an increase in anxiety and depression - and why m...

Ep5: Zahara Chowdhury: How Schools Should Be 01.03.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to Founder of the School Should Be community, Zahara Chowdhury . They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: why leadership can be incredibly lonely, and the ways in which leaders can feel more connected; how to integrate new staff into a school in a more holisti...

Ep4: Peace Building in Schools with Roy Leighton 15.02.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to author Roy Leighton . They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: why inclusion is so vital but belonging can potentially be dangerous - in a certain context; why he's always been fascinated by the work of Johan Galtung; and how safe, sacred spaces can be...

Ep3: What Can A Folk Festival Teach Us about Belonging? 02.02.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to Joe Heap , the Festival Director of the Towersey Festival . They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: why there is so much to learn about a sense of belonging from a long-running festival; the role that ancestry and history can potentially play in helping to...

Ep2: Leading Belonging in an International School 18.01.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to Mel Ellis. They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: the role a curriculum plays in fostering a sense of identity; how to handle the process of a teacher arriving and leaving in a holistic way; and how wider issues such as agency, context and geography can a...

Ep1: Introduction to Principled 18.01.2023

Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this welcome episode, Matt Hall, Naomi Ward and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better give a fascinating introduction into themselves and their mission to highlight what matters most in the world of educational leadership. Gill explains why being around people who have had a vastly different lived experience can be so mind expanding. Naomi describes why a sense of...

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