Frank Norris and Stan Johnson
Frank and Stan Chats
Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West. Prior to Covid-19, the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two but the pandemic put an end to that. On 1 May 2020, they recorded their first video chat as a way...
Author
Frank Norris and Stan Johnson
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Podcast website
Latest episode
Jul 8, 2026
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Episodes
Frank and Stan Chat No. 201 17.10.2024 39:49
This week the gents are joined by Kathryn Loftus, Director of Education Alliance for Life Chances, a locally led initiative in Bradford that flowed from the work involved in the city's Opportunity Area. Kathryn explains how the alliance has brought together willing supporters of key service providers delivering for children, young people and families. The alliance understands the complex nature of...
Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No.9 11.10.2024 43:49
The Teachertoolkit website is one of the most visited teacher development websites in the world with over 20 million hits. Ross began teaching in 1991 and taught for 26 years in London's national-challenge (secondary) schools; 20 years as a school leader. Today, he works with teachers and schools worldwide, enhancing teaching and learning, reducing workload and improving teacher mental health. A m...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 200 04.10.2024 46:13
In May 2020, Frank Norris and Stan Johnson met online. Frank decided to press a button on the Zoom link and a recording had been made. He then decided to post to Youtube so that there could be a permanent record of the chat. Over four years have passed and in this 200th edition the gents are joined by Sir Michael Wilshaw, the former HMCI between 2012 and late 2016. The chat covers a host of issues...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 199 27.09.2024 45:17
This week the two gents are joined by Chaelsea Slater, CEO and co-founder of the social enterprise organisation called InnovateHer. Chelsea found herself working on marketing within a male dominated tech business and decided to do something about it. She joined forces with Jo Morfee and created Liverpool Girl Geeks. They both left their jobs when they realised the work required their full commitme...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 198 20.09.2024 39:24
We've always been interested in chatting with teachers who have undertaken research into areas we have not chatted about. This week Caroline Popplewell, a Primary School teacher from the North West joins the gents to discuss her school based Masters research into the introduction of the Eco-School programme. She explains the challenges she faced in balancing her other school commitments but ultima...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 197 13.09.2024 41:30
This week the gents are delighted to welcome Prof Mel Ainscow back as a guest. Mel is Emeritus Professor of Education, and an internationally recognized authority on the promotion of inclusion and equity in education. Previously a head teacher, local education authority adviser and lecturer at the University of Cambridge, he's also a long-term consultant to UNESCO. He led the Greater Manchester Ch...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 196 07.09.2024 47:29
The two gents are back for another academic year. The seven week break they have had has recharged the batteries and much has happened in education, especially in the past week. Fortuitously, they are joined by John Malynn, a long serving senior Civil Servant at the DfE and for four years at Ofsted. Frank and John would meet regularly to discuss developments such as new Frameworks when Frank was r...
Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No. 8 09.08.2024 32:08
The two gents chat to Tom Zebedee about cyber security. Tom explains why it is vital that senior managers create a strong culture of openness and trust to ensure the chance of security breaches is reduced. He makes clear that it is all centred around effective leadership and a desire to demonstrate this at all times. He points out how some fairly recent breaches took place and how they were resolv...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 195 19.07.2024 37:58
The gents are delighted to welcome back as a guest Emma Ainsworth. Emma is currently a Chair of Governors at a Primary School in Bradford, a former senior manager at The Coop and currently working on strategic architecture at Biffa. Stan draws attention to a rugby medal he found in his attic which led to him researching the relative who played Rugby Union in the 1880s. Emma reflects on grief and h...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 194 12.07.2024 35:00
This week Frank and Stan chat with Jill Gray, former Principal at Blackpool 6th Form College and now a leading figure in the creation of The Coastal Collaborative Trust, a new multi academy trust that includes her former College. The chat opens with Stan having mixed emotions around the news that the new Government intend to undertake a Curriculum Review to ensure there are wider opportunities for...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 193 05.07.2024 35:14
A momentous night followed by a Frank and Stan Chat. What more does education need? The two gents chat about their views on the past 14 years, what might happen in the next 100 days and what they hope for in the future. It's just a gentle glide through a range of issues. For those who have been up half the night and had to teach today, it might be just what you want. We hope so! Hosted on Acast. S...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 193 05.07.2024 35:14
A momentous night followed by a Frank and Stan Chat. What more does education need? The two gents chat about their views on the past 14 years, what might happen in the next 100 days and what they hope for in the future. It's just a gentle glide through a range of issues. For those who have been up half the night and had to teach today, it might be just what you want. We hope so! Hosted on Acast. S...
Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No. 7 03.07.2024 35:19
Ever wondered what it felt like to be a long-established tutoring provider during the pandemic? Ever wondered why existing providers were not included in the initial list of 33 national providers for the National Tutoring Programme but new providers were? Ever considered why the Randstad contract ended so quickly? How did tutoring programmes survive and what are they doing now? This special SPOTLI...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 192 28.06.2024 42:43
This week Stan returns from his two week break and we are joined by Education Director, author, keynote speaker and great guest Paul Ainsworth. Paul's most recent publication 'No Silver Bullets' draws on his considerable and varied career involved in school improvement. True to his character he doesn't plug any of his books, although Stan and Frank do. The chat begins with Stan 'reflecting' on hot...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 191 21.06.2024 33:02
It has taken a while but it was great to have Mags Bradbury, the Head of Social Responsibility and Civic Engagement at University of Manchester as our guest. Mags previously led the Coop Group's education programme which included their early foray into academy sponsorship. In fact, Mags was instrumental in encouraging Frank to apply for a senior role with the Group. This led in turn to him being a...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 190 14.06.2024 35:25
With Stan taking a couple of weeks away from the chat we are delighted to have Kendra Allen as the co-host. Kendra has been a longstanding follower of the weekly chat and has appeared on three separate occasions as a guest. The chat kicks off with Kendra discussing the level of abuse online that female politicians receive and why this makes it difficult for some to consider a career in politics. F...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 189 08.06.2024 33:13
Sometimes major news stories have relevance for education and the way they show poor leadership and/or judgement. This week's faux pas was not directly about education but it demonstrated poor judgement and a lack of awareness. John Cosgrove former headteacher, author and freelance writer joins Frank and Stan as they unpick the decision of the PM to miss part of the 80th anniversary of the D-Day l...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 188 24.05.2024 40:14
This week the gents are joined by a friend, colleague and keen follower of their weekly chat, Kendra Allen. This is the third time Kendra has been a guest and she never disappoints in being able to draw on considerable experience as a senior leader and adviser to get to the heart of the weekly education news. This week we chat about lecterns, rain, umbrellas, planning (or lack of it) and why did s...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 187 17.05.2024 41:18
The gents are delighted Aelwyn Pugh, Former HMI, Senior Effectiveness Officer and Head of Music Service decided to return as a guest. His first appearance was in September 2023 and led to comments such as 'at last we get to hear a proper HMI chatting about education' and 'this is what HMI used to be like. Aelwyn gets things moving by explaining how his career covered a wide range of settings and e...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 186 11.05.2024 49:32
When Frank and Stan held their first chat in May 2020 we never imagined others would be interested in them. We certainly didn't envisage that eminent thinkers, practitioners and respected colleagues would join us as guests. This week we are delighted welcome back Neil Jurd, author of 'The Leadership Book', former army officer and RMA Sandhurst instructor and now a business leader of a training org...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 185 03.05.2024 44:30
It was a privilege to be joined by Jan Rowe from John Moores University for a chat about ITE and the latest education news. It didn't take long for us all to reflect on the teacher trainer market review and the impact it has had. It is fair to say we found it hard to identify many strengths, if at all. Teacher recruitment numbers remain low and existing providers have had to devote valuable time t...
Frank and Stan Chat No 184B 26.04.2024 2:52
This week the gents are joined by Neil Sheldon, Chair of the Teaching Statistics Trust, Fellow of the RSS and a Chartered Statistician Vice-Chair of the UK Linguistics Olympiad and Member of the Committee for Linguistics in Education. A teacher of pupils aged from 9yrs to 90yrs he's a fascinating and well informed colleague in the way statistics are used in society and particularly in education. N...
Frank and Stan Chat No.184 Part A 26.04.2024 36:58
This week the gents are joined by Neil Sheldon, Chair of the Teaching Statistics Trust, Fellow of the RSS and a Chartered Statistician Vice-Chair of the UK Linguistics Olympiad and Member of the Committee for Linguistics in Education. A teacher of pupils aged from 9yrs to 90yrs he's a fascinating and well informed colleague in the way statistics are used in society and particularly in education. N...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 183 19.04.2024 39:34
We are grateful to Adrian Lyons for stepping in when the planned guest was unavailable. Adrian was one of Her Majesty’s Inspectors of Education, one of the most experienced HMI in Ofsted with a national lead for economics, business and enterprise. He regularly led the inspections of secondary schools, primary schools and initial teacher training providers. He led major national surveys such as ‘Ge...
Frank and Stan Chat No. 182 14.04.2024 32:03
Following a short Easter break the two gents are back this week with an amazing guest. Dr Vic Carr is a Primary headteacher on The Wirral, Reserve Army Officer; Chartered Manager; CollectivEd Senior Fellow; Chartered College of Teaching Fellow; Senior Research Fellow, Centre for Army Leadership; author and TEDx speaker who focuses on leadership and the power of language. She has lectured part time...
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