Jason Pack & Evergreen Podcasts
Disorder
Are you fed up with the never ending crises in the news? Are you looking for Order amidst the Disorder? Listen to the Disorder Podcast as we offer forward thinking solutions to the biggest challenges of the day. We are living through an age of unrivaled disorder: an out-of-control Trump Administration, never ending scandals, escalating threats from China, Iran, and Russia, and the rapid march of destabilizing tech. The “good guys” - rules-based ordering centrists - are on the back foot, while neo-populist strongmen gain ground by fuelling more and more chaos. But there are ways out of this me...
Author
Jason Pack & Evergreen Podcasts
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Podcast website
Latest episode
Jul 7, 2026
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Episodes
Ep 143. Can The Politics Guys Help us Order the Disorder? 25.09.2025 1:06:21
For a special bonus episode, we give you Jason’s conversation with Michael Baranowski, of The Politics Guys podcast. They discuss: Jason’s concept of global enduring disorder, the implications of this disorder for global politics, the role of the US, and the need for new governance structures to address transnational challenges. Plus: the rise of neopopulism across the globe, its implications for...
Ep 142. Why are stock markets not crashing? With the FT’s Katie Martin 23.09.2025 1:01:49
Investors are frogs in a Trumpian pot. As he turns the water up will they jump or boil? Trump has chaotically imposed tariffs on the global economy-- replete with arbitrary numbers, 90-day pauses, and then different outcomes for similar countries. Many predicted this type of chaotic policymaking would tank the US stock markets, make the bond markets panic, and trigger a worldwide recession. Jason...
Ep 141. Trump Visits UK, Starmer on verge of Recognising Palestinian Statehood 16.09.2025 54:09
As Trump touches down in the UK, Elon Musk provokes a riot in Westminister and Kier Starmer’s government is set to recognise Palestinian Statehood. Last week, Israel attacked Hamas leaders in Qatar. Did they hit them? Did they miss? Did Mossad advise against the IDF’s plan? There’s a lot of Disorder out there. To discuss these issues as well as: his recent family vacation road trip across France,...
Ep 140. Could Britain Lead on Migration, Rule of Law, and Public Health? 09.09.2025 59:17
Britain has a new Foreign Secretary, Yvette Cooper, and this week’s episode dives into the UK’s foreign policy and how it could in theory transcend some of the country’s current political divides. To dig into this topic, Jane and Jason are joined by Michael Stephens, senior fellow at Global Nation and an associate fellow at RUSI. Mike’s new report, ‘Rules Britannia’ is being launched today, and is...
Ep 139. Bangladesh and The Great Game for South Asia 02.09.2025 59:57
With the West’s ability to promote democratic transitions essentially dead, a struggle for influence is unfolding inside Bangladesh. Its traditional alliance with India is being replaced by a scramble for economic influence among China, Pakistan, the US, and Russia – none of whom are genuinely committed to promoting free elections inside the country. If you add in the fallout from the recent India...
Ep 138. Are we prepared for global disasters? 26.08.2025 55:04
In early August, one of the most powerful earthquakes ever recorded struck a sparsely populated region in Russia’s far east. It triggered a tsunami that started crossing the ocean, heading towards the coastlines of Japan, Hawaii, and the US west coast. Thankfully… due to successful and orderly global co-ordination, millions were evacuated and countless lives were saved. This week, Jane and Jason d...
Ep 137. To Recognise a Palestinian State 19.08.2025 54:30
It is our favourite time of the month. Jane and Jason take on the mega orderering listeners’ questions – focussing mostly on the Middle East, the Trump-Putin summit, and any rays of ordering hope that might be on the horizon. They look at the unlikely role of UN peacekeeping forces in the West Bank, whether the UK, Australia, and France recognising Palestinian Statehood would help anything, and wa...
Ep 136. Trump's High Summer of Disorder: Can Big Global Government actually regulate AI? 14.08.2025 49:30
Like it or not, Trump and his surreal version of a libertarian patrimonial America is reshaping the world. At least in what the FT’s Janan Ganesh dubs “the high summer of Donald Trump”. I teamed up with Andrew Keen of the ‘Keen On America’ Podcast to discuss Big Tech and the need for Big Government to regulate it. Andrew thinks Government and international treaties can’t be the answer. I disagree...
Ep 135. Are Drones replacing Air Forces; and is NATO ready for it? 12.08.2025 49:03
As Ukraine and Russia master new forms of drone warfare, are NATO and Europe being left behind? Is the West willfully clinging to older 20th century ways of equipping and preparing for war? In this episode, Arthur Snell is joined by Matthew Savill, the Director of Military Sciences at RUSI. They focus on developments and trends in contemporary conflict and investigate new trends in the use of forc...
Ep 134. Why Spying is vital in our age of Disorder 05.08.2025 46:21
For as long as there’s been wars and diplomacy, there have been spies. Some call it the world’s second oldest profession. But from their peak during the Cold War until now have the West’s spying capabilities declined? And how is spying and subterfuge being used in the Ukraine War? As part of our partnership with the New Books Network, Jason is joined this week by former MI-6 agent, Charles Beaumon...
Ep 133. Could Epstein Bring Down Trump? 29.07.2025 59:22
It’s that time of the month (ha), as we take listener questions! Jason and Jane discuss why the Epstein scandal WILL genuinely hurt Trump with his conspiracy loving base, the complexities of the UK’s independent nuclear deterrent, the multilateralism of any new Iran nuclear deal, the implications of blowback from Trump's conspiratorial scaremongering, and if the Russians have the ability to escal...
Ep 132. Why Backgammon Can Help us Order the Disorder 24.07.2025 54:21
We’ve heard about Putin bluffing. Abraham Lincoln was an accomplished poker player and Churchill dabbled at chess. But to our mind it is Backgammon that best reflects both politics and life decisions. It’s a game of skill, luck, reversals and socializing. So could world leaders use Backgammon to help them develop their empathy, strategic thinking, resilience, and make better decisions? In this con...
Ep 131. Have You Got What It Takes to Become British? 22.07.2025 41:16
Each time someone wants to become a British Citizen, they have to pass the ‘Life In The UK’ Test. The aspiring Britisher (such as Jason) might hope that this test would be comprised of a series of questions that would highlight Britain’s role as a global orderer, help prospective citizens understand the intricacies of British queuing culture and provide insights into how to pay council tax, or get...
Ep 130. Is International Diplomacy Dead? With Stephanie Williams 15.07.2025 49:02
The UN is demonstrably powerless in Gaza; unable to facilitate elections in Libya; and blocked by Russia from doing anything meaningful on major issues, like Ukraine, Climate Change, Tarriffs, or the Arctic. Is International Diplomacy Dead? Where is the UN in pushing back against Trump? Is there any way that countries can finally put their differences aside on major divisive issues -- like Ukraine...
Ep 129. What Does British Foreign Policy Actually Mean? 08.07.2025 1:07:46
In his roll as UK Foreign Secretary, David Lammy has often talked of his concept of progressive realism, but what does that mean? And how has that impacted British foreign policy over the past 12 months? In this episode of Disorder, Alex Hall Hall and Arthur Snell delve into the complexities of British diplomacy over the past year – offering a grade point for each area of British foreign policy. T...
Ep 128. The Decline of American Leadership 01.07.2025 45:13
In Alex’s final episode as an official cohost, she and Jason reflect on just how disordered the world has become since the pod started in 2023. They lament the loss of sane American global leadership during that time, the challenges faced by centrist politicians, and unpack the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. They express the need for moral courage and moral clarity in politics. As they Order the Dis...
Ep 127. How To Navigate Our Disordered World 26.06.2025 47:08
In Alex’s penultimate episode as an official Disorder cohost, she and Jason discuss her decision to step back from co-hosting due to the overwhelming chaos in the world and the emotional toll it takes. Plus: they unpack the struggle to maintain empathy in a disordered world, the rising fear of deportation, cancellation, political violence, censorship, enemies lists, and their implications for demo...
Ep 126. 12 Day War Restarts? Can Trump Impose Peace on Iran and Israel? 24.06.2025 34:01
As Lenin apparently never said, ‘There Are Decades Where Nothing Happens and Weeks Where Decades Happen’. We are clearly living through the latter. Arthur and Jason attempt to untangle the latest: from the Iranian attack on the US airbase in Qatar to Trump’s declaration of forever peace to end what he is cleverly calling the 12 Day War. Arthur and Jason rally in violent unity for Mega Ordering --...
Ep 125. As wars rage, can Trump be seen as a peacemaker? 19.06.2025 54:25
Trump promised to end the wars in Ukraine and Gaza, yet here we are – months later – and seemingly no real progress has been made towards peace in either regions. In the meantime, Trump and co were also seeking deals across the Middle East, including a new nuclear deal with Iran. How did that go? It ended in full scale War! Is the Art of the Deal dead? Is Trump a fool? Or is he more of a master ne...
Ep 124. How Does the Iran Israel War End? My Kingdom for a Bunker-Buster 17.06.2025 58:37
Over the weekend, waves of missiles were launched back and forth by Iran and Israel – killing civilians, damaging oil refineries, and causing tremendous humanitarian disaster. Iran willy nilly lobbed bombs at population centres while the Israelis targeted key bits of infrastructure. In either case, the international community stood by – seemingly unable to stop the Disorder. So what can be done? I...
Ep 123. Israel’s attack on Iran - The Wars of Disorder Commence 13.06.2025 28:43
Overnight, Israel attacked several of Iran’s nuclear sites and killed the Islamic Republic’s top military leaders, as well as assassinating the Supreme Leader’s key advisor on nuclear issues, Ali Shamkhani. This comes two days before the US and Iran were supposed to resume direct talks on finding a diplomatic agreement to curb Iran’s nuclear programme, which Shamkhani had publicly supported. Jane...
Ep 122. Can NATO Survive? With Sten Rynning 10.06.2025 39:54
At different engagements throughout the month, NATO allies will meet in Brussels and the Hague to discuss Ukraine and defense spending – with Trump’s team putting pressure on the Europeans to up their spending to 5% of GDP. But with the Americans wavering on the alliance as a whole, and these unrealistic spending targets: Can NATO survive? To find out, Arthur Snell speaks with Sten Rynning, profes...
Ep 121. Could Project Russia Destroy the West? with David Troy 03.06.2025 57:57
From Gaddafi’s Green Book, to Mao’s Little Red Book, to Hitler’s Mein Kampf, ideological autocrats have frequently spelled out in plain sight their perverse world views and long-term plans to confront their adversaries and upend global order. Rather than engaging in deep study of the thoughts of Qadhafi, Saddam, the Ayatollahs, or Mao, our leaders have traditionally not taken the statements of our...
Ep 120. Could Nationalism Save Germany? With Will Wilkes 27.05.2025 45:03
With Friedrich Merz officially at the helm, Germany is entering a new era. But with the AfD breathing down his neck – the country is actually more internally Disordered than outsiders may realise. We ask: could the answer be a new – inclusive – brand of nationalism? To find out, Jane Kinninmont is joined by Will Wilkes: Bloomberg News correspondent in Germany and co-author of ‘Broken Republik: The...
Ep 119. The Danger of Complete Anarchy with Robert Kaplan 20.05.2025 56:12
Disorder is a show where we look for historical parallels to better understand our current age of Global Enduring Disorder… It is also a show where once and a while we stumble across novel and yet explanatory parallels like the idea that the problems of Weimar Germany have gone global and sometimes we even get to interview world famous scholars who have come up with these novel parallels and have...
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