Cult Chat

Join Liz, Caz, Lindy and cult expert Dr Janja Lalich, as they talk about the highlights of the inaugural NZ Decult 2024 conference, and how this remarkable event has contributed to a critical conversation. In this episode Liz says, “The problem is more pervasive than your average kiwi recognises.” Too right, Liz! Let's keep the conversation going! Notes Website - Get access to Decult audio and vid...

*Trigger warning for this episode’s content*. This episode we continue the second part of Caz’s interview with Mary Garden, talking about how her swami revealed himself to not be the benign, peaceful, celebate yogi that he appeared, but instead a violent, tantrum-throwing psychopath with sexually predatory intent. Mary talks about trauma, waking up, and the gift of writing her story, returning to...

Mary Garden was a seeker in her 20s, finding her way to India to three different gurus - Sai Baba, Swami Balyogi Premvarni, and Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. Mary tells her story, unpacking the historical context that left her longing for more, and the personal context which primed her for recruitment. Our hosts then chat about recruitment, the suppression of intellect and critical thinking required by...

Cults exposed in New Zealand. The Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Faith-Based & State-Based Care investigated what happened to children, young people and adults in NZ in these care settings during 1950 to 1999. The final report - Whanaketia - was released on 25 June. The extent of the findings are beyond imaginable. Lindy, Liz and Caz all have personal reasons to care about the findi...

Dr Janja Lalich, leading cult researcher and sociologist, author of several books about cults including “Take Back Your Life”, talks with Liz and shares her Bounded Choice Framework. They talk about moral injury and accountability, the way cults arrest the development of children, and the importance of support and psychological care after leaving a cult. This chat comes in the lead up to Dr Lalich...

If you’ve been wondering if your book club is actually a cult, then this episode is for you! Settle in as our hosts chat about the green flags for healthy groups - borrowing extensively from the work of Dr Janja Lalich, in her book “Escaping Utopia”. The girls try very hard to focus on the flourishing, nourishing and encouraging qualities present in a healthy group and how they are different from...

Lindy chats with Dr Gillie Jenkinson, UK psychotherapist, trainer of therapists, and author of “Walking Free from the Trauma of Coercive, Cultic and Spiritual Abuse - A Workbook for Recovery and Growth.” Gillie talks about her personal history in a cult, her realization that the only way to get some decent resources for the cult recovery journey was to develop them herself, and the excitement she...

Liz & Caz learnt so much at the International Cultic Studies Association conference in Barcelona that they had to do another episode on it! Listen in as they tell Lindy all about the fascinating anti-cult activists and educators they met and the breaking research they learnt about. In this episode they chat about the process of waking up for cultists, the impacts on the second generation, and...

What were Liz & Caz doing in Barcelona this month? Apart from chowing down on tapas and sipping on their drink of choice, the girls hob-knobbed with leading international authorities on cults & coercive control at the International Cultic Studies Association annual conference. In this episode Liz and Caz download all their new learnings to Lindy who sadly had to stay at home. Join us to he...

Do therapists have the skills needed to support the recovery of cult leavers? Yes! Do they understand the significance of the cult context? Hmmm, maybe not. In this episode, Lindy and Liz discuss the workshop they recently lead where they taught a room of mental health workers all about cult recovery. Listen in as they tell Caz all about it, share some tips for therapists working with cult-leavers...

We’re back again to finish our conversation with Sarah Mettrick, former Sri Chinmoy disciple, who was recruited into the Sri Chinmoy Centre as a fourteen year old. Sarah tells us about her emotional stunting as a teenage cultist, and how after she got out, she found herself trying to figure out who she was in her early 30s. This second episode gives massive insight into the developmental disruptio...

Sarah Mettrick spent 13 years in the Sri Chinmoy Centre in Christchurch. In this first of two episodes Sarah talks to Caz about her years in the group. The two talk about life as a teenage recruit in this eastern mysticism group, the conflation of the guru with the divine and the control of member’s sexuality. Sarah reflects back now years later on what she was part of and how much she gave of her...

Recently Caz, Liz and Lindy spent a day with renowned trauma expert, Dr Bessel Van Der Kolk, author of “The Body Keeps the Score”. Our trio unpack their day of learning, and talk about the impact of trauma on the body, on memory, on recovery and why it is important in the context of cults. Using their hastily scribbled notes, they discuss neurophysiology, EMDR, neurofeedback, and a bunch of other...

What do you do if someone you love won’t acknowledge the harm that you experienced - the harm they may have caused? How long do you wait, and is there another way to move on?  In this third episode Sam and Caz talk about the yearning for acknowledgement and reparation that follows betrayal, especially betrayal as a child. Join this final conversation with Sam and Caz, as they grapple with hurts le...

Decades after leaving a cult, what is life like for a child cult survivor?  How does she build identity and integrate into the outside world? In this second episode of Caz and Sam Jahara’s intimate conversation, the two discuss these concerns and more. They talk about the resources needed to recover and thrive, the wounds left by neglect and abuse, and the unique challenges those born or raised in...

Caz speaks with UK psychotherapist Sam Jahara about her years as a child living in the communes of the Indian guru Rajneesh in the 1980s. They explore how the Rajneesh movement was so similar in many difficult ways to the Centrepoint Community that Caz was involved with as a child. This is the first episode of a three part interview between two women who explore the long term effects that cults ha...

Join Caz, as she interviews two accidental cult investigators about two notorious NZ cults. The first is Natalie Malcon, producer of “Escaping Utopia” the recent Gloriavale docuseries, and “Heaven & Hell; The Centrepoint Story”. The second is Anke Richter, journalist and author of “Cult Trip”, a deep dive into the complexity of both Gloriavale and Centrepoint. This conversation between three c...

Join Liz as she chats with ex-Gloriavale film participant Rosanna Overcomer and film producer Natalie Malcon about the recent Escaping Utopia docuseries. We give you a glimpse “behind the scenes”, into the film’s journey to the screens, set design, casting, meticulous re-enactments, as well as the personal challenge of sharing one's story. We also delve into the ethical dilemmas of filming und...

Have you seen the eye-opening three-part TV docu-series “Escaping Utopia” that hit NZ this past week? Join us for a candid discussion as Caz, Liz, and Lindy share their reflections. Gain insight into the complexities of escaping Gloriavale and the support systems aiding those transitioning to freedom. Listen in as we uncover the resilience and courage of individuals breaking free from a closed com...

Lindy chats again with Tore, president of Cult Information and Family Support Australia. Tore explains some of the supports CIFS offers leavers of cult groups. The two talk about the importance of group support for ex-cultists, why cult leavers need psycho-education about cults, and how critical it is for survivors to talk to someone who understands. Tore explains why therapists need to be trained...

This week we share a fascinating discussion between Tore Klevjer and Lindy, both passionate advocates for victims of cultic harm, who also each have complementary roles in organizations which support leavers. Tore shares about his experience of being recruited into a group, and how he found his way out ten years later with his family. In this episode the duo discuss regrets, doubts and shame, and...

What do a doctor, a lawn enthusiast, and an amateur photographer all have in common? Almost no understanding of the law! Join us for this episode as Caz, Liz and Lindy bumble their way through various international laws on coercive control, and ask themselves - and you, the listener - exactly what it will take for New Zealand law-makers to recognise how harmful group coercive control is, and provi...

What does a woman abused by her intimate partner, a member of a cult group, and a prisoner of war in North Korea in the 1950s all have in common? Listen to today’s episode to find out! As you listen you’ll also learn interesting facts about venn diagrams, storm-troopers and the joys of lawn-mowing. Today’s episode features a culty analysis of 1950’s researcher Albert Biderman’s fascinating, yet ch...

Join us this week for a chat with Sarah Steel, writer and producer of the acclaimed podcast series “Let’s Talk About Sects”. Listen as our hosts do some serious fan-girling in Sarah’s direction! After 6 seasons of her podcast and a book on the topic Sarah has learnt a thing or two about cult podcasting, she’s got some ideas about how to make things better, and some tips for our hosts on how to nav...

Are you heading back from a break at the beach and now need a movie from the cultiverse to get you back into the mood for work? In this third summer series special episode our hosts talk about their favourites 2023 shows from the cultiverse. Lindy, Liz and Caz talk about what makes these shows worthy watches, and why.  These shows will shock you, inform you, and open your eyes a lot wider to diffe...