Cult Chat

Dr Andre Jackson returns in this episode to finish his chat with Liz about the JWs, their doctrines and the methods they use to control members. Together the two examine different methods of control utilized by the JWs, particularly  information control, use of propaganda, and justifications for misleading people for the benefit of the organisation. At the end of this episode Liz is joined by Lind...

Liz plumbs the depths of the JW’s with Dr Andre Jackson in this episode, to try to understand the control mechanisms within this organisation. What are the expectations of members of the JWs? How is the organisation structured? What are their key beliefs, and are any of these harmful? What are the impacts on witnesses when they ask questions or try to leave? With approximately 15,000 JWs in New Ze...

What is happening at Gloriavale? Join Liz and two of the lawyers representing Gloriavale Leavers, Steve Patterson and Dennis Gates, as they give a comprehensive update on the long and arduous road to justice and holding the Gloriavale leaders to account. The chat about the highlights and lowlights of 2024, and discuss the many investigations and court cases that are ongoing. They reveal some new a...

Today our co-hosts wrap-up the shunning mini-series, unpacking what they’ve learned from Craig, Lindy, Windy & Savin. This topic has been given four episodes because the costs for individuals, families and communities who experience this cruel tactic of control is devastating and poorly understood. Mandated shunning destroys lives, destroys communities, and there are no laws to protect people...

In this 3rd episode on shunning, Craig Hoyle, author of “Excommunicated” shares about growing up in the Exclusive Brethren, aware that many members of his family have disappeared and been painted by the church as evil. Ultimately Craig faces his own sudden excommunication. This conversation shows powerfully the inter-generational impacts of shunning, both for those who are obliterated from the fam...

Listen in to the second half of Lindy’s interview with Drs Windy and Savin, who share findings from their research on shunning including the serious life-long impacts for both the individual and their communities. Savin says, “Shunning is not a one-off event,” - indeed it is a trauma that affects a whole life. Our guests share insights for those affected by shunning, and discuss ways to reframe an...

Is shunning the most insidious of all cult practices? In today’s episode Lindy and our guests, researchers Windy and Savin from Roehampton University, define shunning and discuss how it's used deliberately as a tool by coercively controlling groups to threaten and impose social death for those who question the rules. Savin and Windy introduce listeners to their research, and the movement sweeping...

This is the second episode with Gina, who was raised in a cult which discourages members from seeking medical care. In episode two she describes how she slowly changed her view of health to the scientific world view, as she trained to be a medical professional. She shares stories of working as a clinician with people from cults, and some helpful tips for how medical professionals can gain the trus...

Today Caz interviews Gina, a nurse practitioner & midwife from California. Gina grew up in a cult which discouraged mainstream evidence-based health treatments, in favour of non-scientific treatments. Gina talks about growing up in the group and watching people die to suicide, or suffering from treatable health conditions because the group did not allow Western medical care. This first episode...

On 23 October Liz, Lindy and Caz hosted a dinner event at Parliament called "Unmasking Cults." We were delighted that a range of dignitaries, ministers, and representatives of key services in New Zealand were interested in hearing about, and hopefully take action to address, the harms that cults cause across New Zealand. Listen to our hosts - along with guest host Dr Janja Lalich - share some of t...

Join Liz, Caz, Lindy and cult expert Dr Janja Lalich, as they talk about the highlights of the inaugural NZ Decult 2024 conference, and how this remarkable event has contributed to a critical conversation. In this episode Liz says, “The problem is more pervasive than your average kiwi recognises.” Too right, Liz! Let's keep the conversation going! Notes Website - Get access to Decult audio and vid...

*Trigger warning for this episode’s content*. This episode we continue the second part of Caz’s interview with Mary Garden, talking about how her swami revealed himself to not be the benign, peaceful, celebate yogi that he appeared, but instead a violent, tantrum-throwing psychopath with sexually predatory intent. Mary talks about trauma, waking up, and the gift of writing her story, returning to...

Mary Garden was a seeker in her 20s, finding her way to India to three different gurus - Sai Baba, Swami Balyogi Premvarni, and Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. Mary tells her story, unpacking the historical context that left her longing for more, and the personal context which primed her for recruitment. Our hosts then chat about recruitment, the suppression of intellect and critical thinking required by...

Cults exposed in New Zealand. The Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Faith-Based & State-Based Care investigated what happened to children, young people and adults in NZ in these care settings during 1950 to 1999. The final report - Whanaketia - was released on 25 June. The extent of the findings are beyond imaginable. Lindy, Liz and Caz all have personal reasons to care about the findi...

Dr Janja Lalich, leading cult researcher and sociologist, author of several books about cults including “Take Back Your Life”, talks with Liz and shares her Bounded Choice Framework. They talk about moral injury and accountability, the way cults arrest the development of children, and the importance of support and psychological care after leaving a cult. This chat comes in the lead up to Dr Lalich...

If you’ve been wondering if your book club is actually a cult, then this episode is for you! Settle in as our hosts chat about the green flags for healthy groups - borrowing extensively from the work of Dr Janja Lalich, in her book “Escaping Utopia”. The girls try very hard to focus on the flourishing, nourishing and encouraging qualities present in a healthy group and how they are different from...

Lindy chats with Dr Gillie Jenkinson, UK psychotherapist, trainer of therapists, and author of “Walking Free from the Trauma of Coercive, Cultic and Spiritual Abuse - A Workbook for Recovery and Growth.” Gillie talks about her personal history in a cult, her realization that the only way to get some decent resources for the cult recovery journey was to develop them herself, and the excitement she...

Liz & Caz learnt so much at the International Cultic Studies Association conference in Barcelona that they had to do another episode on it! Listen in as they tell Lindy all about the fascinating anti-cult activists and educators they met and the breaking research they learnt about. In this episode they chat about the process of waking up for cultists, the impacts on the second generation, and...

What were Liz & Caz doing in Barcelona this month? Apart from chowing down on tapas and sipping on their drink of choice, the girls hob-knobbed with leading international authorities on cults & coercive control at the International Cultic Studies Association annual conference. In this episode Liz and Caz download all their new learnings to Lindy who sadly had to stay at home. Join us to he...

Do therapists have the skills needed to support the recovery of cult leavers? Yes! Do they understand the significance of the cult context? Hmmm, maybe not. In this episode, Lindy and Liz discuss the workshop they recently lead where they taught a room of mental health workers all about cult recovery. Listen in as they tell Caz all about it, share some tips for therapists working with cult-leavers...

We’re back again to finish our conversation with Sarah Mettrick, former Sri Chinmoy disciple, who was recruited into the Sri Chinmoy Centre as a fourteen year old. Sarah tells us about her emotional stunting as a teenage cultist, and how after she got out, she found herself trying to figure out who she was in her early 30s. This second episode gives massive insight into the developmental disruptio...

Sarah Mettrick spent 13 years in the Sri Chinmoy Centre in Christchurch. In this first of two episodes Sarah talks to Caz about her years in the group. The two talk about life as a teenage recruit in this eastern mysticism group, the conflation of the guru with the divine and the control of member’s sexuality. Sarah reflects back now years later on what she was part of and how much she gave of her...

Recently Caz, Liz and Lindy spent a day with renowned trauma expert, Dr Bessel Van Der Kolk, author of “The Body Keeps the Score”. Our trio unpack their day of learning, and talk about the impact of trauma on the body, on memory, on recovery and why it is important in the context of cults. Using their hastily scribbled notes, they discuss neurophysiology, EMDR, neurofeedback, and a bunch of other...

What do you do if someone you love won’t acknowledge the harm that you experienced - the harm they may have caused? How long do you wait, and is there another way to move on?  In this third episode Sam and Caz talk about the yearning for acknowledgement and reparation that follows betrayal, especially betrayal as a child. Join this final conversation with Sam and Caz, as they grapple with hurts le...

Decades after leaving a cult, what is life like for a child cult survivor?  How does she build identity and integrate into the outside world? In this second episode of Caz and Sam Jahara’s intimate conversation, the two discuss these concerns and more. They talk about the resources needed to recover and thrive, the wounds left by neglect and abuse, and the unique challenges those born or raised in...