Legal Talk Network
Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.
Author
Legal Talk Network
Category
Podcast website
Latest episode
Jul 8, 2026
Where to listen?
Podcasts in the app Replaio Radio Coming soonPodcasts are coming to the app soon. Install now and be the first to see a whole new take on podcasts
Episodes
Donald Trump Got Indicted For Toilet Espionage But We Still Need To Talk About This Bear Cop 14.06.2023 33:17
When you think about it, is a deputized bear really weirder than keeping classified documents in a bathroom with two chandeliers? Donald Trump got indicted since we last convened. And then the case got assigned to the same judge who got professionally scorched for trying to bail Trump out in the first place. Apparently he thinks the government pays people to plead guilty? It's all very weird. Davi...
Free Speech Hypocrisy, Hot Bench Troubles, And ChatGPT Legal Research 07.06.2023 36:08
Maybe the woman who called the cops on a Black birdwatcher should try using ChatGPT to make up some fake caselaw for her appeal because the real ones aren't helping. After a year of sword rattling that higher education is "hostile to free speech" because students don't appropriately sit quiet and absorb what speakers on stage are laying down, the media grandstanding came to a halt -- and in the ca...
Biglaw's 4-Day Mandatory Office Week Is A Big Gamble 31.05.2023 35:24
And the Supreme Court's ethical problems just won't go away. Biglaw has always played follow-the-leader. Usually it's about bonuses, but Skadden is taking a big gamble that the rest of the industry will follow it back to a Monday-Thursday office work week. If the rest of Biglaw doesn't follow suit, the giant sucking sound you hear will be Skadden talent lateraling to rival firms. Also the Supreme...
Ron DeSantis Is A Walking Law School Exam Of What Not To Do 24.05.2023 35:27
How can one guy mess up this much? Ron DeSantis is about to announce a run for president, but meanwhile he's botching remedial civil procedure and running face first in the Fourteenth Amendment. Also, the Kamala Harris camp seems interested in reigniting her tough-on-crime persona by trashing public defenders. It's dangerous rhetoric that erodes faith in the justice system. Finally, Justice Kagan...
Finally We Have U.S. News Law School Rankings... And They're Weird 17.05.2023 27:09
Joe and Chris talk about law school, layoffs, and basic decency. After law schools threw a public tantrum over the U.S. News and World Report ranking, with several withholding key data required to create a credible list, the rankings are now out and... they have serious credibility problems. Missing data, important factors glossed over, and shady employment accounting from the schools result in a...
How Have We Not Yet Hit The Bottom Of The Clarence Thomas Scandal? 10.05.2023 34:37
When you list all of the revelations of the past month, it's impressive. Since we last chatted about Clarence Thomas facing an intractable ethics scandal... more stuff happened! We learned that he also got private school tuition off a donor, that Ginni was getting paid by FedSoc Prime (Leonard Leo) under the table, and that the courts were asked to deal with all of this over a decade ago and decli...
Bold Proposal: Let's Just Convict People Of Crimes We Can Prove They Committed 03.05.2023 38:45
Also Ron DeSantis is getting beaten up by Disney again. The Supreme Court punts on a thorny felony murder case, prompting a conversation over whether the use and abuse of the rule can ever truly be reformed. There's also a super biller out there who managed to bill an average of over 10 hours a day last year. Presumably the attorney is weeping in a corner somewhere. Finally, Disney took its fight...
The Supreme Court Ethics Scandal That Just Won't End 26.04.2023 27:36
Yes, there's still more to say about Clarence Thomas. On this week's episode of Thinking Like A Lawyer Kathryn and Chris go back to the Clarence Thomas ethics well as Ted Cruz decides to weigh in. The New York Bar Exam was kind of a debacle, or at least the process of revealing the results was a debacle. And the Supreme Court gave reproductive freedom advocates a small victory last week, which pro...
Clarence Thomas: The Convenient Textualist 19.04.2023 30:54
Who reads all of the statute anyway? The ethical hits just keep coming for Clarence Thomas as a second story about the gifts he collected from Harlan Crow expanded to include buying and maintaining a house for Thomas's mom. Rent free of course. Thomas doesn't have a particularly good excuse for not disclosing this since the text of the disclosure requirements are pretty clear. I guess holding peop...
What's Half A Million Dollars Among Friends And Easily Corruptible Government Figures? 12.04.2023 27:18
Clarence Thomas takes some me time. An ethical quagmire surrounds Clarence Thomas. No, not that one. Not that one either. This one is about the gifts he's taken over the years without disclosures. Donald Trump took all of a couple hours after his indictment to start riling up his mob against the judge and prosecutor. And a Paul Hastings associate issues some bad advice.
Disney's Newest Princess Dooms Ron DeSantis 05.04.2023 35:17
Also Morgan & Morgan has had it with insurance lobbyists and the legal profession is losing talent to OnlyFans. Ron DeSantis tried to punish Disney by dissolving the local government dominated by Disney flopped when the smart lawyers pointed out that it would put the state on the hook for a deluge of liability. His latest effort to then replace all the board members flopped because while he crowed...
Biglaw Office Policies: You Catch More Associates With Honey Than Vinegar 29.03.2023 34:22
Latest podcast also talks about ranking the best law schools the worst way possible. With March upon us, we created our our bracket-based challenge to rerank the top law schools based on... nothing. If the law schools don't want to provide data to ranking services, we'll show them what that looks like. It's pretty bad. Speaking of bad, a litigant got a bit of a lecture from a federal judge who cau...
Federal Judge Turns Law School Event Into Pro Wrestling Style Spectacle 15.03.2023 34:44
Also, Elon Musk really needs legal counsel. Judge Stuart Kyle Duncan is the latest speaker to cry foul that an audience of law students heckled him to death. He's received an apology from Stanford Law School already, but the videos released from the event and the witness accounts appear to show the judge playing the role of wrestling heel. Taking the honest if probing questions from the audience a...
Federal Judge Didn't Know Handcuffing Crying Children Was Frowned Upon 08.03.2023 31:33
And a pop quiz: do you know what 'bofadeez' is? Judge Roger Benitez of the Southern District of California decided to use his marshal to take a 13-year-old girl out of the audience and handcuff her in the jury box. Apparently, he didn't realize arbitrary acts of psychological torture upon children was frowned upon in this establishment. Now the Ninth Circuit is looking into a formal complaint. Als...
There's Only Loud Quitting In Law Firms 01.03.2023 30:17
And Sidney Powell drew the judge she needed at the right time. It may tickle the search engine algorithms, but the phrase "quiet quitting" seems out of place among lawyers. A firm sued one of its former attorneys for "quiet quitting" on them and now she's hired Wigdor to countersue, which is about as loud as lawyers can get. Meanwhile, the Texas judge hearing the state bar's complaint against Sidn...
Infamy And The Billable Hour 22.02.2023 29:27
On this week's podcast, we discuss a North Dakota law firm sued its associates and won, seeking to clawback paychecks for failing to meet billing requirements during the pandemic. Wasn't there a program to protect employers from cutting salaries during the downturn, you might ask? There was! And the firm took gobs of it. Also, Clarence Thomas is likely getting a statue in his honor, because as the...
The ABA's Bold Stance Against Losers (Of The Civil War) 15.02.2023 30:02
On the latest episode of Thinking Like A Lawyer, Kathryn and Chris ponder the need for a rule against Confederate flagsin courtrooms in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA the year of our Lord 2023. Speaking of bold stances on things that should be obvious, the American Bar Association would really like a Supreme Court ethics rule, but we know that's not happening. Plus if you want your full bonus this y...
Have You Considered Not Lying Under Oath? 08.02.2023 38:13
Also, let's talk about Biglaw and cancel culture. How much continuing power should a judge have over the lives of defendants who plead guilty? A judge recently forced a woman to withdraw and apologize for statements diverting blame for an incident that she'd admitted to in court. A January 6th defendant is in hot water for the same thing. Prosecutors use overcharging and the ordeal of trial to lev...
The Justices Are One Big, Happy Family, Says Justice No One Likes 01.02.2023 31:40
Also, some salty law school talk. Every high schooler has a group text chain and then a chain where they complain about the people they don't like on the group chain. Brett Kavanaugh is unaware of the second chain. Because when you have to do public tours to convince people that you have friends, you don't have friends. Meanwhile, a law professor didn't take too kindly to a student request. And wh...
Supreme Court Leaves Nine Stones Unturned 25.01.2023 32:53
And what's going on with the legal market right now? The Supreme Court's inquiry into the source of the leak of its draft opinion in Dobbs failed to find the culprit among the clerks and permanent staff. Attorneys familiar with internal investigations pointed out that the report appeared carefully drafted to mislead the public without technically lying about the failure to investigate the people w...
Maternity Leave Scandal A Reminder That Lawyers Still Don't Understand 'Benefits' 18.01.2023 33:22
Also, Joe Biden's documents elicit special counsel attention. A (now former) senior attorney at an Ohio law firm texted an associate blasting her for interviewing for another job while on maternity leave. The controversy laid bare the persistent threat of pregnancy discrimination, but also the ways these attitudes fester when management fails to take swift, decisive action. The Department of Justi...
Layoffs & Mergers Highlight A Bumpy Year Ahead 11.01.2023 36:07
It’s only the beginning. While Goodwin Procter announced a major round of attorney layoffs, Holland & Knight announced a blockbuster expansion by adding Waller Lansden. Two different paths both driven by industry uncertainty: should firms cut or grow their way out of declining demand? Also, Ginni Thomas kept doing Ginni Thomas things.
Biglaw Closes Out The Year With Some Shenanigans 04.01.2023 30:35
Always waiting until the last minute. The week between Christmas and the New Year is usually pretty dead for legal news, which makes it the perfect time for a firm to try to slip some shady stuff past the goalie. Shearman started telling associates that they would not be getting bonuses for a variety of previous unannounced reasons. Foley Hoag tried to retroactively apply next year's hours require...
2022 Legal Year In Review 28.12.2022 48:04
The gang breaks down the biggest trends across the legal industry this year. From the Supreme Court's leaking to major ethical lapses, 2022 came in with a bang (raises) and leaves with a whimper (stealth layoffs). Did we learn anything? Probably not. Are we going to talk about it anyway? Of course. What else are we going to do?
Biglaw Firm Seeks Its Pound Of Bar Prep Flesh 21.12.2022 33:39
It's all about optics. When an associate left Jones Day before serving a full two years, the firm billed for pro-rated bar study expenses. Once again, just because an agreement allows a firm to do something, doesn't mean it should. It's just not a good look for a firm. Speaking of optics, we also talk about Justice Brett Kavanaugh partying with Matt Gaetz and Alex Acosta -- and more importantly, p...
Similar podcasts
Replaio is not a podcast publisher; show names, artwork and audio belong to their authors and are distributed through public RSS feeds.