Very Bad Therapy

Justin Norris rejoins us to conclude our conversation about the perplexing maze that is the application process for grad school. We use the California State University (CSU) system as a case study to illustrate why program requirements aren't always what they seem, and Carrie discusses which therapy programs do a great job of defining and providing quality to their students. Plus, Subaru gets lots...

Have you ever wondered why the process of applying to grad school is so unclear at times? In part one of two, we are joined by Justin Norris, an expert in systems of higher education, to talk about the surprisingly interesting topics of accreditation, for-profit vs. non-profit designations, and public vs. private universities. If you wanted to become a therapist but ended up in a sales funnel, thi...

What happens when a therapist doesn't want to work with a client? What should happen? Tom shares his experience with a therapist who chose avoidance over honesty, and we discuss ten types of hard conversations that frequently give therapists anxiety. Plus, is Steve Carrell a good enough TV therapist to avoid getting murdered?   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive access to reg...

Dr. Sally Gibbons is an Oxford-educated philosopher, professor of bioethics and philosophy at UCLA, and licensed professional clinical counselor. We discuss her academic background, what inspired her transition to a career in mental health, and how philosophical thinking informs her humility and curiosity with clients. We also explore the intersections between philosophy and psychotherapy and how...

Psychological testing can be complicated. It shouldn't have to be hostile, even if the evaluation is not intended to be in a client's best interest. In today's episode, Jacob shares his experience of a truly ridiculous psych assessment, and we speak with Rachel Simon, LCSW MEd about how assessors can minimize the harmful impact of their own biases – and the biases built into the psych tests themse...

The history of expertise in medicine and science led the field of psychotherapy to its beloved empirically supported treatments (ESTs). Psychiatrists were prescribing pills, and psychotherapists were offering best practices. But how did these best practices get their reputation, and what happens when clients and therapists alike believe uncertain truths about mental health treatment? We conclude o...

Therapists are considered mental health experts. How did this come to be, and is it necessary for the future of the field? Join us as we trace the surprising history of the medical model in therapy from its origins in the Scientific Revolution to the evolution of treatment manuals. Part I takes us all the way to 1987, with cameos by the Catholic Church, Ben Franklin, Sigmund Freud, Hans Eysenck, a...

Today's guest Marie shares her thought-provoking story about a preoccupied telehealth therapist, and we drag Dr. Ben Caldwell into another one of our philosophical crises about what constitutes very bad therapy. Is it not following a treatment plan? Having young children show up in session? Ignoring ruptures? Regularly showing up late? And while we're at it, what even is therapy? Who should get to...

Carrie and Ben are joined by friend of the podcast Rachel Bennett to talk about how their past careers have shaped their identities as therapists. Topics include: How working in fine dining informs the importance of being of service and providing experiences to therapy clients How very few people in therapy and acting know what they're doing and how this helps with impostor syndrome The humility r...

Consciousness-altering psychedelic drugs have shown tremendous promise in mental health treatment. The future of psychedelic-assisted therapy is uncertain, but one thing seems clear: the psychedelics are for the client, not the therapist. Today's guest Matthew shares his peculiar experience with a not-quite-levelheaded therapist, and Ben Hearn joins us to discuss everything you ever wanted to know...

Dr. Andrew Scull is the Distinguished Professor of Sociology, Emeritus, at UCSD. He has written extensively about the history of psychiatry and the treatment of madness. We discuss why it seems like the more you know about mental illness, the less clear things become. We also explore myths about biology and neuroscience, the likelihood of a clear solution for improving psychotherapy, and the polit...

The field of psychotherapy has increasingly prioritized discussions about issues of oppression and marginalization. This is, of course, a sign of progress. But who gets left out of these conversations? Today's guest Kaley shares her experience of antisemitism in therapy, and Halina Brooke rejoins us to talk about how Jewish clients are impacted when therapist education reinforces harmful narrative...

We're back with Dr. Ben Caldwell to conclude our thoughts on grad school and the surprising reality that it isn't meant to make you a good therapist. We talk about starting supervision, avoiding moral injury, and most importantly, all the things that graduate education does very well in supporting early-career clinicians. Plus, we share our best advice for anyone getting started in their career in...

Dr. Ben Caldwell joins us to discuss everything you need to know about going to school to become a therapist. His most important message? Treat grad school like a convenience store – get in and get out. We explore how to choose a school, how to get the most out of the experience, and where to focus your energy along the way. This episode is for anyone interested in becoming a therapist or for thos...

Of course we were going to end up doing an episode about CBT eventually. Emily describes visiting a CBT therapist who seemed uninterested in doing any real work, and Alyssa Davis joins us to cognitively restructure our beliefs about therapy models. Plus, some notes on EMDR, common factors, and deliberate practice. This episode has a bit of everything.   Thank you for listening. To support the show...

Ben and Carrie have a new podcast! It's called Learn Psychotherapy, and we're inviting you to listen and practice along to develop your therapy skills.   Learn Psychotherapy: Website / YouTube / Apple Podcasts / Spotify   Skill Criteria for Soliciting Client Feedback: Begin with a short response, reflection, or validating comment. Ask the client for feedback about some aspect of therapy that is re...

We're long overdue for a good old-fashioned Q&A episode. You've sent in your questions, and we're here to opine about everything from the importance of therapists getting their own therapy to the curious reluctance of the mental health field to embrace social psychology. Plus, we begrudgingly discuss the latest TikTok therapist drama to make a point about when it might be better to actually reject...

What happens when a therapist and client have two very different conversational styles? Therapists can try to build rapport in many ways, which unfortunately is reflected in our guest Ben's experience of being given terrible advice mislabeled as psychoeducation. Whether a client is talkative or reserved, one thing is for sure: randomly praising Donald Trump as a paragon of confidence is curious at...

Dr. Robin Hanson is an associate professor of economics at George Mason University and the coauthor of The Elephant in the Brain: Hidden Motives in Everyday Life. He joins us along with guest host Dr. Alex Williams to explore what clients are subconsciously signaling when they seek therapy – and what therapists are signaling to others when they enter the field. Plus, why is feedback-informed treat...

When does somebody officially become a client of therapy? And what happens if, before that distinction is made, crises occur and the therapeutic relationship unravels? Our guest Neith shares her experience navigating this scenario, and Dr. Ben Caldwell explains why little of this is clear cut, but some of it is clearly bad. Plus, we introduce a new segment: Is It Bad Therapy?   Thank you for liste...

On Very Bad Therapy, we seek to understand what it's like for clients to have bad therapeutic experiences. Should we focus more on the therapists' side of the story? Dr. Patrick Wiita joins us to continue our conversation from the end of episode #72 to discuss some very interesting questions: Are we doing a disservice to our listeners by not considering the "bad" therapists' point of view? What ar...

Dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) is considered the front-line treatment for borderline personality disorder. What exactly is DBT, and why is it nothing like the invalidating experience that Amy describes in today's episode? To accept and change the reality of bad DBT, we speak with Fred Kutnick, LCSW about the propositions of good DBT.   Thank you for listening. To support the show and receive a...

Thomas Lennon is an acclaimed actor and screenwriter, best-selling novelist, and most importantly, Carrie's long-time friend. We break from our usual format to chat with Tom about his good experiences in therapy, the impact of fame on mental health, and Metallica getting family counseling together. This was a fun conversation – maybe next time we can talk with Paul Rudd!   Thank you for listening....

Carrie and Ben are joined by Dr. Will Dobud to discuss two burning questions: is good therapy just the absence of bad therapy, and should we ban the use of cognitive behavioral therapy? We explore the importance of teaching people to think about psychotherapy models differently, the appeal of bringing therapy back to its pragmatist roots, and what the biased origins of personality tests can teach...

Beth is a self-described therapy failure expert. She joins us for the whole episode (and more!) as we discuss her personal bad therapy experiences, what therapists think of clients who disclose their stories of bad therapy, why therapists often struggle to provide specialized services, and the fact that some therapists simply aren't good at making their clients feel understood.   Thank you for lis...